smooth shadows on blocks

Posted By: demiGod

smooth shadows on blocks - 01/20/07 21:38

Hi,
How can i fix the terrible transition from lights to shadows like in the picture below? There is a predefined var i should assign?
The floor its a textured block, there are some static lights, the ambient and albedo are default, the sun is black.

Posted By: Uhrwerk

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 00:58

You can either set the blocks smooth flag or buy the pro version in order to have high resolution lightmapping...
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 13:05

Thanks for your answer.
Actually setting the smooth flag doesnt solve the problem, just increase the compiler time.
And about the hiRes just in the pro version, i just cant believe this can be true. I hope there is another way to workaround this problem.
I dont understand why hiRes its only available in pro version, but its harder to understand either why the commercial version should have this stupid ligthmap resolution.
Someone knows how to solve this question please?
Posted By: Uhrwerk

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 13:59

I can give you on additional hint: Never use single colored textures and lightmaps together. Using a detailed ground wall or whatever texture will make it look much better.

Have a look here concerning the lightmap resolution thing: http://www.conitec.net/english/gstudio/3dgs2.htm
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 14:28

Too bad, i need to implement single colored textures and lightmaps together in my level, that how it is.
Maybe i will consider some kind of shader..
Thanks.
Posted By: SirSven

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 15:19

Maybe you can upload your files so we can have a look at it because i also used single colored textures with lightmaps once and i had no problems so far.
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 15:29

Did you used commercial or pro version?
Posted By: DARKLORD

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 15:45

I use commercial edition and I also made it work.
But I also can't realy get so much info from the screenshot...
Posted By: SirSven

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 15:49

Commercial version 6.50.4
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 16:08

Well, i made a simple test level, just a hollow block, a block with a texture and two static lights. I am using 6.50.6 version.
The problem is the stupid transition between lights and shadows, do you have this problem too?
simple test level

EDIT: sorry i didnt include the wad file. Now its ok.
Posted By: DARKLORD

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 17:56

Not sure why, but the result I get when running it on my system is pretty OK I think.



It just looked so bad on your picture, but I think you can't get better quality without pro and in my opinion it's good enough.
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 18:12

Your screen looks exactly like in my system so i believe thats the way it is and not a particular problem on my own.
Unfortanly i cant agree with you, when you say thats good enough even considering the commercial version. In current stage development of A6 engine and looking for a semi-professional / professional work demand, i cant understand these limits, but its my opinion.

Thank you for your help DARKLORD.
Posted By: broozar

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 21:20

perhaps your d3d_shadowmap var is set to a low value?
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 21:39

I believe you are refering to d3d_shadowdepth, if so i am using 32 which is the highest i think..
Posted By: broozar

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 22:38

sorry yes, sure.

well, for me the quality difference from shot one to the 2nd is more than obvious, i still do not see your point. maybe you could mark the critical area with an arrow or something...?
Posted By: FixxeR

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 23:24

He's just saying that the shadow gradient isn't smooth (say 64 steps as apposed to 1024). There are visible artifacts to the shading which breaks the illusion.

FixxeR
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/21/07 23:31

Well, i am talking about those concentric circles marked in red in the next image. You see, the transition between light and shadows is made by those terrible circles, it seems the lightmap has very low quality and the effect is worst when the ambient and sun lights are darker.
I wonder why the transition its not smooth.

Posted By: Matt_Aufderheide

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 03:21

Quote:

Your screen looks exactly like in my system.




Well it certainly doesn't look that way from the screenshots; Darklord's screenshot looks clearly better to me. I have also tested it ony my system and it looks fine to me, transition is very smooth.

I assume you have some setting wrong...
Maybe you are running in 16 bit color? What kind of video card do you have?
Posted By: Thomas_Nitschke

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 13:28

Probably the texture itself is rendered in 16 bit, so that the shadowmap is not the actual problem?
AFAIK it can be found in the manual that textures from a .WAD file are always rendered in 16 bit colour depth. You could try and use WED's "Add folder" option instead of a .WAD and see if it does any good.
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 14:07

Hello Matt and The Matrix, thank you for your point of view.
Your 16 bit color problem thing really makes sense and i will try to confirm that question later on because at the moment i cant.
Thanks.
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 19:30

Actually its true that textures in WAD file seems to be 16 bits, under settings i can see "1024x1024x16", but i tested with addFolder option and the result its the same and the settings of the texture that way appears the same 1024x1024x16 in texture manager.
Well i am not a 2d artist at all but i see the properties of the texture outside WED and bits depth is 24 and vertical / horizontal resolution 96 ppi.

What i am doing wrong here please?
Posted By: DARKLORD

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 19:34

Maybe that helps (from the manual):

Textures can be used from WAD files or from folders. Supported image formats are PCX, BMP, TGA, and DDS. Normally, PCX or BMP textures are stored in 16 bit color depth with 4 mipmaps. For high quality textures in 24 bit color depth, use the TGA format;
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 19:47

I already tried tga format saved with 24 and 32 bits, but the problem persists, the diference is that in properties it appears "1024x1024x24"
Posted By: broozar

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 21:01

http://www.conitec.net/beta/ad3d_alphadepth.htm

set d3d_texdepth to 32... does it solve your problem?
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/22/07 21:32

Sorry, but it doesnt solve the problem. You see, the problem only occours with single colored images / textures like that one on the test level. With other type of textures like from the standard.wad the transition is very smooth.
So i ask you, how can i create / fake a texture like that in order to have good shadowmap?
Thanks for your time.
Posted By: DARKLORD

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/23/07 12:16

With other textures you have the same problems I think, but it's much harder to see them.
Posted By: Thomas_Nitschke

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/25/07 18:18

Just to be sure: Yes, it says after having added a texture folder that the texture was y X z X 16 - but it isn't. What we have here is nothing but a Conitec-typical inconsistence in GUI creation... they simply implemented the same infobox no matter whether the texture is inside a WAD or a folder.
So, if you haven't - give it a try. Does the problem definitely occur with texture folders instead of WADs?

Cheers
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/25/07 19:24

Hi Matrix,
Actually the problem occours with single colored textures in both WAD files and add folder files. 24 bits bitmaps and 32 bits targa files appears n x n x 24 in properties dialog. The next screenshot is a screen of a added folder 32 bit tga file applied to a block. Dont look at it too much time because it is so stupid that can hurt your eyes..
Thanks.

Posted By: Thomas_Nitschke

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/27/07 10:32

Yeah that certainly doesn't look too good, after all.
Probably it has something to do with your graphics card/driver? I once had this with my old G4Ti4200 - no matter what I did, the Q3-Engine always ran in 16 bits colour depth for some reason.
Posted By: Orange Brat

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/27/07 11:30

Quote:

Never use single colored textures and lightmaps together.




It all comes down to getting the light right in this instance. My title uses single colored textures almost exclusively, and I've had many great lighting/shadow areas. I've had my fair share of failures, but it's a matter of finding the right combination of light settings and/or cheats.
Posted By: demiGod

Re: smooth shadows on blocks - 01/27/07 16:17

I have a GeForce 6600 GT 128 MB with Nvidia drivers updated..
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