massive multiplayer

Posted By: Anonymous

massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 20:38

what's the command line to play massive multiplayer?
how to create massive multiplayer?
how's the best way to create massive multiplayer?
Posted By: TEC

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 21:06

First - You are asking silly questions, donīt you?! [Razz]
Second - have you rt(f)m?
Third - have you already complete a multiplayer game with A5/A6?
Fourth - have you ever complete a game with A5/A6?
Fifth - have you answered one or more of the above questions with no?

Then

Sixth - work hard to answer all questions with YES!

And last but not least

Seventh - i donīt want to offense you - but look at FIRST [Wink]

Creating a game is hard work (if you create it by yourself) [Eek!]
Creating a multiplayer game is harder (if you you create it by yourself) [Eek!] [Eek!]
Creating a massive multiplayer game is... [Roll Eyes]

There is no such thing like a multiplayer command line option, button or template there isnīt even something like a tutorial

Good luck on your way to...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 21:22

for the 6 questions I say "yes"

but the command line -sv -cl
create a multiplayer server!
but not a massive multiplayer!
Posted By: napo

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 21:24

it's the same...
first read the manual
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 21:39

when I create a server witn the command line
-sv -cl
a unlimited numbers of clients
can to connect in server created
no problem?
Posted By: napo

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 21:43

Yes if you own Pro. If you own Commercial only 4.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 22:51

if I buy the professional edition and made a litle game for example (office level)

when I create a server witn the command line (-sv -cl)
a unlimited numbers of clients can to connect in server created
no problem?

like a massive multiplayer

---------------------------------------

this message I send to the conitec suport e-mail
and the her reply:

Dear Fabio,



For MMP you should use a Stand Alone Server. Dedicated server are to slow for more tha 10 players.



Best regards,

Tobias Runde

- Support -

what means this?

It's a very hard question!
how to get this "stand alone server" to create MMP?
where to get an aplication like a "gamespy"?
ps: to get the gamespy service in the game coust U$995,00!!!!!!!

what's the best way?
Posted By: myrlyn68

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/05/03 22:57

Basically it means what it says...

You should not try to use -sv -cl on your hypothetical server for a MMOG. The addition of the -cl will cause it to run quite slowly when it starts having to handle data from all the clients. What they are suggesting you do is use a dedicated computer to run the server (-sv only) and then conect to it with the clients (-cl). In doing it this way, you can cut down on the stuff that the server does not need to see (an fx that are just for show for example).

In theory you could have an entirely seperate set of models and textures for you server to give it even less work so it can focus on handling only what it needs to (being a good little traffic cop).

Just a heads up though, MMOGs are probably one of the hardest things to get up and running. You might want to put that on hold until you are more familiar with the game engine itself.
Posted By: Plouf

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 00:12

I dont really catch the diff between 'Stand Alone' and 'Dedicated', for me dedicated means 'only doing that thing'...as 'Stand Alone' in fact, thats maybe my english [Wink]
I wish you could have a -MMOG commanf line option [Razz] (I m far from it but I would like to do a MMORPG too)(I m not alone in that prodject, of course)
Posted By: myrlyn68

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 00:33

I think (speculation of course since I didn't write the original message) they are refering to a Stand alone server as something that is coded seperately. Where as dedicated would be the same as the client, but running in server mode.

My reasoning on this is that there is a lot of additional code on the client side that the server could care less about (animations, graphics, fx, cameras...). All of these commands take clock cycles to run, and when it is trying to run them for every entity on the server, it really starts to add up. However if you were careful with your code, you could essentially have two completely seperate games that could run in unison. One for executing server side instructions, and the other for the client. The server side would be stripped down of everything that is not needed so that it could be maximized to handle the extra task of controlling bandwidth. The client would of course be the game which everyone would want to see (particle effects, flares, beams, streaks, animation, big textures, detailed models...).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 00:53

Plouf

what's means "-MMOG" IN COMMAND LINE
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 03:04

if I want to run the gamestudio aplication in multiplayer, but all the clients will to connect in the port 500
for example: 192.168.122.100:500

what's the correct command line for the clients?
and the server?
Posted By: Doug

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 03:50

Here’s some advice from somebody who is doing it.

http://www.conitecserver.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000026

What does it take to make a MMPOG? Time and money (lots of both). I don’t want to be too discouraging, it may just be a matter of time before MMPOG are as common as personal websites, but right now it takes a lot of effort to get started.

Good luck.
Posted By: Plouf

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 06:20

-MMOG stands for Masiv Multiplayer Online Game
(and special typing errors makes the thing more "personal")
Dont try that comand for now, conitec is still working on it [Big Grin]
MMORPG is really hard to do, I agree, but maybay in few years it will be easyer, thats the most enjoyable games (to me) and the kind of game where players cares less on graphics (look at Neocron [Roll Eyes] )
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 20:32

I,m working about a MMORPG project game
I have this computer configuration:
AMD duron 900 Mhz - 256 mb RAM (16mb video on-board)
HD 20 Gb and internet acess 256 Kbps (ADSL)
with this computer is possible to run a MMORPG server ?

ps: my project game are 90% done!
Posted By: myrlyn68

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 21:42

No.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 22:03

Fabio, do you have a publisher? If so wouldn't they take care of the server? It depends on the deal you strike with them, of course.
Posted By: Plouf

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 23:15

Havent you done bandwidth estimation?
ADSL may be enough for 10 players, not much more.
Posted By: Doug

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/06/03 23:54

Kevin Ross (from the link below):
quote:

Equipment is key on any massively online game. Just to give you an idea, we are currently using 92 servers for the Unknown. Yes when we say servers we mean Dell Power Edge Servers, not clones, not 386?s, 6 SQL cluster servers being used to store data, and one EMC Oracle Database used to calculate player positions and entities. We are not using a cable modem to connect to the internet but a DS3 (45 Meg pipe) to the internet. Understand it takes 500 players per T1 to play any online game. That may sound like a lot but it is not when you think massive. Most Dial-ups can only handle 4 players, and most cable lines 8-14. ASDL can do a few more, but understand this is uploading & download your doing both. Our servers are connected via fiber, to a core switch with multiple backbones to insure security and reliability. This is just 1 Unknown Shard, since we are planning on running only one world this is one world worth of equipment.
http://www.conitecserver.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000026
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/07/03 00:18

I send this hard question for conitec support
I send this message for conitec support:
see:

but for MMP, I go to need a super-computer?
my computer is duron 1.2 mhz, 256mb RAm , HD 20gb, winxp

internet acess 256 kbps ADSL

is sufficient?

her response is that:

Dear Fabio,



Yes of course, if you want to create a MMP with 1000 players you need the best computer you can get.

And you need a very fast internet connection.



But before, you must finish your game.

Then ask a publisher for the rest!



Best reagards,

Tobias Runde

- Support -
Posted By: myrlyn68

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/07/03 01:44

**I am aware that the numbers presented are not accurate, they are merely used to illustrate my point**

Are you expecting anything else? Use some common sense. The server is effectively running hundreds of games simultaneously. How well does your current system handle games? Now how would a system which is half as fast...and half again...and again...

Everytime you double the number of players (1, 2, 4, 8...500+) you are also doubling the workload. If you are not entirely satisified with playing on a 486 processor, do you really think your players will be satisfied using a server that handles the communications like it was one? MMOG are a horse power hog. Other than just game servers, most have a seperate server to handle the AI within each level, not to mention handling zone to zone transitions, player files, backups, the list goes on and on... You could easily spend several hundred thousand just on one server farm for one game world.

Now as far as bandwidth goes, last give each player a mere 25 kbps connection, now you want how many? 10, 20, 100 or more? Take that 25 kbs and work it up. So 10 players will kill your ADSL. 100 players would nock out a T3. See whats happening?

MMOGs are great, but they require a lot more in resources then your average independant can muster. Also when you take into account that the total scale of a MMOG (graphics, AI, pathfinding, Database, Networking...) most small production houses would be lucky to even complete a proof of concept on one to get funding for full scale development. It is a good thing to look before you leap and do your research. While I am not saying it can not be done (Kevin Ross is proving that it can - BTW has anyone heard anything new from them?), I will say that it won't be done often.

**I am aware that the numbers presented are not accurate, they are merely used to illustrate my point**
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: massive multiplayer - 06/07/03 01:58

in frequent asked question in conitec hp:
zone system is an advanced client/server system with multiple servers. The game world is divided into several levels (zones) that are controlled by separate servers. Zone systems are used for massive online multiplayer games with an unlimited number of players.

ok?

But, if I create a dedicated server with command line option "-sv"
and all the clients host, to connect in this server with command line option "-cl -sv"
????

this is a multiplayer Zone system with unlimited number of players?

ps: using that computer configuration...
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