MultiPlayer in GameStudio

Posted By: ax3man

MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/09/04 06:38

I would like to ask the group if there is a document that captures in some detail the requirements and specifications that 3DGS has for multiplayer.

If not, I would like to flesh out what those issues would be as my game gets closer to becoming a reality.

First, I am building a small 9 or so level game that will allow complete freedom of action in the player environment. I intend to allow as many players as possible to connect to this game simultaneously, because a large part of the experience will be interactions with other players.

The game type is multiplayer RPG with a first person feel. Battle between players will be dealt with by the server, but I want the players to direct the battle action.

The game will have a inventory component, where users can trade items, buy and sell, train etc. The issue of where the computing takes place is still in design.

My main question is, how many players could be walking around in a single server machine at any one time? Lets say I have a T1 with dual xeon board runnign 2.4G processors. Lets say no combat supported yet, just users walking around and seeing each other, and chatting. Any guesses on how many players per machine?

Lets talk..

Ax3Man

Posted By: Virtual_User

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/09/04 10:04

Quote:

I would like to ask the group if there is a document that captures in some detail the requirements and specifications that 3DGS has for multiplayer.

Although not specifically written for A6, Alain's multiplayer workshops 1, 2 and 3 are a great place to start with the Multiplayer aspects of 3DGS.

http://www.conitec.net/a4update.htm to find the workshops.

One of the things you need to grasp immediately is that you write the server and client as one application. And that functions run on clients and actions run on servers. (Functions called by actions also run on servers).

If you go through the workshops they will get you primed. They use the templates which is a good place to start until you are more familiar with the engine.

Quote:

If not, I would like to flesh out what those issues would be as my game gets closer to becoming a reality.

First, I am building a small 9 or so level game that will allow complete freedom of action in the player environment. I intend to allow as many players as possible to connect to this game simultaneously, because a large part of the experience will be interactions with other players.

What edition of A6 do you have? This would help us (others on the forum) determine what functionality is available to you in your endeavor as certain things are only available with certain editions. Extra, Commercial, Professional?

I would recommend that you setup 9 different server apps running a different level to achieve the 9 levels you want. This way the load is balanced by levels. I have not tested this but I would guess that if you have more than 64 players in a room (and probably after 32) you will need to have written your code very tight and with complete bandwidth and processing time optimizations.

Quote:

The game type is multiplayer RPG with a first person feel. Battle between players will be dealt with by the server, but I want the players to direct the battle action.

The game will have a inventory component, where users can trade items, buy and sell, train etc. The issue of where the computing takes place is still in design.

The issue of where the computing takes place may very well be determined by the multiplayer architecture of 3DGS. You will probably want to set your game design aside and dig into the workshops mentioned above. Once you have done the workshops then attempt to write something very basic without templates and build from there.

You will find many excellent threads on the topic of creating multiplayer environments on the forum. I, myself, am doing the same thing and have only 4 weeks into and already have a test app that allows an unlimted number of players to connect (using fish model without animations) and chat.

I have, in the last week, started adding camera views, inventory items etc and need to step back to the basics of character animation. So you can see it is a step by step process.

Quote:

My main question is, how many players could be walking around in a single server machine at any one time? Lets say I have a T1 with dual xeon board runnign 2.4G processors. Lets say no combat supported yet, just users walking around and seeing each other, and chatting. Any guesses on how many players per machine?

This is probably the most commonly asked question about Multiplayer Games and unfortunately it is also the most misunderstood question. No one person on earth could predict within a reasonable closeness as to satisfy anyone asking this question how many players could be walking around in a server without knowing what the environment is and the architecture of the game.

If you are talking about a single level with no buildings, just ground and sky object, one character type that all users will walk around in with, you could probably see between 24 to 96 players maybe even in the hundreds. Still there are many variables that could inrease or decrease these numbers. How often are the characters positions updated? How strict are you setting up your dead reckoning? Are you sending all available entity information or are you tuning it down to just the bare minimums... what are the bare minimums for your game?

And there would also be a slight issue of the dependability of the architecture you are connected to at your ISP. If they have outdated routers you may experience problems, albeit these types of issues are rare but would be considered by large production MMOG companies.

Good Luck!

Posted By: fastlane69

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/09/04 12:03

Sorry to disagree VU, but alain's tutorials are woo fully outdated and don't include the current Networking Capabilities of 3DGS.
I hope my White Paper "making MMO* project in 3DGS" will help update the Networking code.

Until then, look at the manual under multiplayer modus, the send_* commmand, network events, AND teh A5/A6 Network Protocal. Stare at them long enough and you start to think you know whats going on

Posted By: Virtual_User

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/09/04 13:26

The only reason I would recommend Alain's workshops is because it does cover some of the basics that a newbie would need in understanding 3DGS' multiplayer abilities. Of course after a quick run through with Alain's workshops diving in to your MMO White Paper and the current A6 Manual is probably going to be the best course to actually get started on a MP game.

Can't wait to see it! (The white paper that is)

Posted By: fastlane69

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/09/04 20:11

Getting there....so tired....

Posted By: ax3man

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/10/04 16:50

Any chance I could get involved reading that paper for you?

Ax3Man

Posted By: fastlane69

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/10/04 18:08

Well... sure! Of Course!
Go to

http://www.conitecserver.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=343856&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

and read the details to sign up for the closed beta!!

Posted By: Virtual_User

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/11/04 07:48

I am also working on trimming down the multiplayer templates into a single wdl file that includes only the very basic multiplayer funcationality. I think this would be a good place for people to start as well. Especially since not all 3DGS owners have the Pro version.

I have learned a ton in the last few weeks and I am still learning but it surprises me how much more I understand when I keep going back to Doug's templates and parsing through them.

The templates are great for someone to click together a game but they do have some great features if you can pull them out and use them.

I will post what I have when I complete it.

Posted By: ax3man

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/11/04 12:42

Thanks for the work you have done with documenting this topic, and thanks for letting me try it out.

Ax3man

Posted By: ax3man

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/11/04 12:46

My version of the game is the commercial ver. I plan on upgrading to the pro if I can get things working well enough on commercial ver. Are the basic behaviors for multi-player the same with 4 player limits (comm ver) vs the unlimited version in pro? In other words, are the same commands used, just limited to 4 in commercial vs pro?

Thanks,

Ax3Man

Posted By: Virtual_User

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/11/04 18:21

The main difference, besides the 4 user limit, is you can't do a "session_connect" call which would allow you to move a user from one game server to another (called zones).

So for the Commercial vs Professional, yes everything is basically the same. Any code that you write now will work perfect in the professional version with the added availability of zones and unlimited players.

Keep in mind that unlimited players doesn't mean click together a game and have it capable of handling 600 users at a time... You will need to dig in and optimize your game to handle how many players you want in each "zone".

If you are just going for an 8 or 16 multiplayer game then you should be absolutely fine working with commercial and then upgrading when you are ready to compile with pro for the added users.

What type of game are you wanting to develop? Just curious. Not looking for details, just something like FPS, RPG?

Oh yeah, almost forgot there are other differences between Com and Pro such as mirrors, physics etc... but I assumed you were asking specifically about Multiplayer. I am sure you also know that you can visit the main page to see all the differences between editions, but just incase:

http://www.conitec.net/a4info.htm

Good Luck!

Posted By: fastlane69

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/12/04 04:18

VU hit it on the head.
Let me add that session_connect IS what makes a MMO*. Without it, you'd be limited to having ALL your users in one level or rather in one machine. This will kill system performace and game performace if like VE said, you go much more beyond 20 ppl with no optimization. You could double or triple that number with some easy opts., but you'll still never hit or exceed 100 users.

SEssion_connect allows you to distribute your load across diffrent zones and thus diffrent servers and ever diffrent computers; critical for a MMO*.

Posted By: unrealfragmaster

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/15/04 04:54

I also have a few questions about the multiplayer.

Our team have 3D Game Studio A5 version 5.2 Professional
We dont really want to spend more on the A6 Professional, htough may do in the future.
We want to create a MMORPG, and using sql files ont he server, have the game interact with the database to pick out information, and use it in the game.
Is this possible?

Posted By: fastlane69

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/15/04 05:04

100% unreal.

Posted By: unrealfragmaster

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/15/04 05:54

Thanks dude :-D
So, it can conenct to a SQL databse fine yeah?

Posted By: Virtual_User

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/15/04 07:54

you will need to access your SQL database with a DLL that is external to A5... But yes it is 100% possible. There are some great resources on writing your own DLL... check out the information in the SDK on the main 3DGS site.

Actually there is a DLL that was written specifically for A5 for accessing ADO databases...

unrealfragmaster , while I am looking for it, tell me the exact version of your A5.... There are different versions of the ADO DLL that work with different versions of A5... I want to refer you to the right one.

Good Luck!

Posted By: Dan Silverman

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/15/04 19:38

unrealfragmaster,

Quote:

Our team have 3D Game Studio A5 version 5.2 Professional

The first thing you would want to do is download the latest free update of A5 Pro. You have version 5.2, but there is a much newer version. Multiplayer was drastically improved in the latest version as well. So to avoid running into bugs in multiplayer (and other places) I would recommend you get the latest A5 update.

Posted By: Doug

Re: MultiPlayer in GameStudio - 02/17/04 06:03

Quote:

Thanks dude :-D
So, it can conenct to a SQL databse fine yeah?

You need to update to the latest version of A5 pro and then download the SDK using your password.