Model with animated bones AND facial expressions?

Hmm..

Is there nobody else here using facial expressions for their models?

I use bone for open close jaws and grimace. Not realistic , indeed.

Dont know if this will work as I have not tried it (I always directly animate in 1 model all animations) but give it go anyway

Import 1 set with the body animations then another with the facials.
Choose which one will be the master mdl file then export the other to asci then reimport into master model.

Thanks Nems,

I've tried that just now, but that doesn't seem to work either.
I end up with either 2 separate models, or if I import the
keyframes from the 2nd model to the 1st, the keyframes will be
appended and not merged with the 1st animation.

What do you use to animate your characters?

MED
Bummer it didnt help though but I cant see there not being a way to do it.
I dont have any time to actually attempt a solution as I am way in over my head in my own project and life but if you keep bumping after a couple days each you might strike it lucky with some one who has actually done it or is looking into the prob.

Cheers...

Woops, forgot, try to 'merge' the two differnet files, that should do the job Im thinking.

Another "Woopsie" here, it doesnt matter about the order of the frames as you can move them about to suit or call them directly in the engine as is commonly done.

gonzo, you're taking the words out of my mouth...

I have to assume that the algorithyms for various tool options and uses in MED may be mostly taken up and so limiting, via license prices, for incorporation as I dont see why MED is still the primitive modeller that it is. Even old Amapi is fantastic compared to MED!
But its got everything anyone needs to make assetts directly for the engine to use without the laborious process of importing/exporting.
In short its perfect for new starters in GStudio but a drag for advanced modellers.

My personal favourite is MAYA (..cant afford it but started learning on MAX) but Dan talks good about MODO ( the demo wouldnt load up for me on my system so Im not buying it)and Silo gets good reviews too.

For an animation pipeline when I can be bothered loading it up is my old Poser 4 (cant afford to upgrade that one either..) where poses are saved out (exported via obj, 3ds etc) as key frames then set up in MED, good trick .

I made this monster model when I try to figure out how the entire cicle works.
I put some bones in its face: during the frames it move the face and mounth.
With patience and trials and error you should rig and adjust an human face and make some credible expression even without a costly software.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=8XNbf8vkm8o

You could make the body entirely with bones animation (without a head) and then make a new model of the head with vertex animation of expressions and attach it. The only problem would be finding a point where the head(or face) can be attached so that there is no seam between the two models.

That still would be a model with mixed bone/vertex animation, wouldn't it?
Why GS doesn't support this important feature is beyond me.

Am I the only one here who would like to have realistically animated
characters in his game? I can't believe it!

well, i used to convert my models fully to vertex animations...

Mondivirtuali, If you used two seperate models each running vertex and bonew animation, then you could attach the vertex animation face model to the body model with bones animation by scripting, ie. vec_for_vertex and such. This doesn't mean one model running two types of animation, but two models each with different animation types.

I use a rig of head bones to make expression. I have a workflow ready from max 9 to MED by FBX. I have used although the 2 Parts solution of impaler, but the 2 models never move in the same frame... So the head was always following the body a little bit later...
Another problem with the 2 parts solution are the seams of the both parts. They are not smoothed.

Kind regards

taratoga

there are animation blending functions... you will have to use them, it is not pleasant. You will have to write an animation manager to handle this stuff...

The only way to do this is to use bones (.fbx import). This is a pain in the neck as it will fail, the most common reason being you have more than 3 skin weights per vertex... keep it at 3 or under (2 is better performance).

Out of maya the .fbx import will fail if the material is not a lambert... etc. Stuff like that really throws it.

You cannot touch the bones in med if you have more than 1 skinweight per vertex, it will not like it.

I have a question. I am able to import my 3ds into poser, then create a group for the head, then export the head into max where I can create a face morph. I can then import that face morph back into Poser for animations.

Doe this mean I can create the animations in Poser, export it, and have them ready for med (with the face morphs/expressions included)?

what about making the head and body spare models?

use verts for face and bones for body?
this is not possible too?

that is possible, but not elegant.

What I have been doing may not be elegant, either, but it works. I use a technique for facial animation worked out by Exciter, using Realtime Mesh Deformation. The interesting thing is that if you use this on one model, all identical models in the game are deformed the same way. So I use an action on a model out of play to deform the face, while a second visible model is using animated bones. The two seem to be completely independent of each other. But what you see is a combined facial animation and bones animation. You could search the forum for "Exciter" and "Realtime Mesh Deformation" if you want to follow up on this concept.

I am not sure as I don't use poser, but can it export to .fbx? It might allow you to import that way into MED

Hi! I had the same problems back in the A5 days (when MED didn't support bones).


I have to ask a few "silly questions" in order to help you.

1) are you rigging your model with SKIN or PHYSIQUE?

2) are you using MORPH targets?

3) are you using an "animation string" or exporting separate animation states?

4) are you using (or thinking of using) springs, for secondary animations like
breast jiggle or hair bounce?

and 5) are you using 3rd party software (milkshape) or importing into MED from 3dsMAX9?

What I can suggest:

-give facial rigging a second chance... you're not limited to only the jaw.
You can rig the eyelids so they'll open and close, the cheeks so they'll rise
and fall even make the nostrils flare.

-export your model using .X (pandasoft .X v9) this will allow for even the most complex rig, including controllers (but not morph targets).
Then import it into "Fragmotion" (milkshape won't do this next step) and then export it out as a "VERTEX animated" .mdl7 (this will remove the bones but lock in each movement ie: idle, walk, run, etc).
then open it into Med to make sure it's facing the right way and you're done!

I hope this helped.