Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefer?

Posted By: Penneywize9

Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefer? - 04/25/06 00:04

While we all know that MED has it's own built-in 'terrain' functionality, it is no secret that it is quite limited in terms of what you can accomplish. After perusing these boards I found several 3rd party terrain programs, each with varying features and costs...

Though I am no stranger to terrain, I've not used a terrain software since roughly 2001 and I'm sure things have come along quite a bit since then. I want to know what YOUR terrain program of choice is and (if possible) why. I could really use the help in determining which program I should buy.

Cost is a factor! let me know how much the software goes for if at all possible.

Let me start by listing a few terrain programs I know of, but have not yet tried - please give some feedback on these if you can:

-IceX 2.0 (any good? seems to be the cheapest I can find at 13 euros)

-World Machine

-World Builder

Feel free to comment on any others...
Posted By: ulillillia

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/25/06 00:50

There's Terragen as another one, but I don't use it. I use MED and I don't make HMP terrains, I make MDL terrains due to the many more advantages of MDL terrains.
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 00:34

AAAAAaaaaaaaannnd... Still no answers! are people just looking at this thread and saying 'stfu noob'? Surely everyone has a preference in terms of what terrain generators they use. Let's discuss them!

You like World Builder above all else? okay. Why? What features does it have... Is it easy to bring into GS? All this is up for discussion.

Please keep in mind that this thread isn't just for me, hopefully many other developers who are new to A6 will see this thread and gain some useful insights from it -- that is, if people start putting in their two cents!
Posted By: rstralberg

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 06:14


Have a check on Large 3D terrain generator. Its free and a great software.

Creates Heigtmaps, Normalmaps, Lightmaps and Texturemaps.
Posted By: sinnlos

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 06:43

my prefered method is to model the terrain by myself just like ulillilia.

but if i would go for a terrain generator i would go with ice-x2.
it looks very promising.

im sure, nobody who has read this thread, thaught that its a newbie question.
it is a very interesting topic.
i think many people (like me) just havent tested these editors, so it is difficult to write an answer, that would please u.

cheers

sinnlos
Posted By: Machinery_Frank

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 08:12

IceX2 is a fantastic tool. Freeworld 3d is another very good alternative.

Worldmachine and L3DT are good generators with very cool options to generate realistic looking terrains. They are a bit more complicated as IceX2 and Freeworld but are better generators. But they lack the interactivity that IceX2 and Freeworld 3D provide.

Terragen is an interesting generator and has superb rendering quality (for terrain and water, the clouds are bit simple). But the interactivity while deforming terrains is not very useful.

Vue5 can generate, export and deform terrains.

My favourites are IceX2 and Freeworld 3D.

Best regards,
Frank
Posted By: Caermundh

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 11:10

ive only worked with ALE (Advanced Landscape Editor), L3DT, and a little bit with Terragen.

I was most impressed with L3DT. *Very* nice terrian effects editing. You can do erosion and such whatnot. The two downsides to it are that a) there is no 'official' version, the author is still developing it so the best you can get is an evaluation version, and b) it only saves in its own format and .x, its format isnt something that Gamestudio can use and the .x files it makes takes MED *forever* to open up.

ALE also impressed me. It took my hieghtmaps and made terrains out of them without much fuss. As well, the terrains werent 'stretched' or distorted like they can be with MED. You can also paint the skin right on to the terrain in the editor, something i found to be paticularly nice. The downside to ALE is that in the eval version you cant save so i have no idea if it saves to any format that can be imported to MED.

Terragen...well im not real sure what to say about it. Everyone else seems to love it. and some of the terrains ive seen made with it are truely awesome. However i found the software to be counter-intuitive and hard to learn. I'm sure its easy enough once you overcome the learning curve, but i just didnt have the patience for it.
Posted By: Erniethegamer

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 18:49

I make my levels as Huge MDL´s. With completly reprogrammt scripts, that work quite fine. I Build the levels completly in 3D Studio Max an export them to Game studio. I need only one big texture for the whole level ( except of Models i put in afterwards, like Trees or such things). I Texture the whole level in Bodypaint and so you can buile huge out- and indoor levels in quite a short time, and they look very good. The only negative thing is, that u must change a lot of scripting to make a mdl level work the same way like a block level and the 3ds max an bodypaint are very expensive.
Posted By: Aaron

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 20:03

Hi I got some question's what way is the best way to create large outdoor level's? like in grand theft auto vice city, is it better to use med or a modeling software to make the level? or to used wed? I created my level in wed and when I make the level run in max screen with high def after like 5 sec's my computer crashes, would making the level as a model make it able to be runed as high def. I have engine A5pro edition, however I need help with each step. any suggstions on way's to make my level's pro looking in high def, or any comment's on good way's on making huge level map's.
Posted By: xoNoid

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 20:54

Quote:


Have a check on Large 3D terrain generator. Its free and a great software.

Creates Heigtmaps, Normalmaps, Lightmaps and Texturemaps.




Hmm interesting. What method do you use for importing into gamestudio. As in apart from using heightmaps that seems to screw everything up in WED.
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/26/06 23:48

Great discussion so far. I like the positive news about IceX 2.0. I might go with that based on the price alone... And the fact that it is made FOR Gamestudio doesn't hurt either.

Quote:

IceX2 is a fantastic tool. Freeworld 3d is another very good alternative.

Worldmachine and L3DT are good generators with very cool options to generate realistic looking terrains. They are a bit more complicated as IceX2 and Freeworld but are better generators. But they lack the interactivity that IceX2 and Freeworld 3D provide.

Terragen is an interesting generator and has superb rendering quality (for terrain and water, the clouds are bit simple). But the interactivity while deforming terrains is not very useful.

Vue5 can generate, export and deform terrains.

My favourites are IceX2 and Freeworld 3D.




Thanks for the info Frank! Very nice breakdown.
Posted By: Erniethegamer

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/27/06 09:26

it depends on how detailt the map should be! You should use the LOT system to save memory on a large map and you can get a few FPS more out of it by choosing an camera angle that point a littel bit down, so that u can see whats in front of u for about 100 meters or so. With that way (wich is also used in GTA)you see enouge in front of u but not too much on the horizon, what would cost FPS an memory.
If you wanna make a game like GTA i would say, make it in blocks with good textures. (a singel large block, with a good texture, can look like a high detail Sky scraper)
Posted By: 3D_Train_Driver

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/27/06 11:04

Hi!
Terraformer.
Mit Game-Studio erstellt, für Game-Studio Anwendungen.
Das Programm erstellt Terrains unterschiedlichen Ausmaßes - bis 101x101 Vertices.
Das Maß ergibt sich wegen der Einfachheit der Berechnung.
101x101 Vertices sind nämlich 100x100 Zwischenräume und bei einem Abstand von 20 Quants ergäbe das 2x2km.
Man kann die verformung direkt zeichnen und das ganze nach verschiedenen Paletten Verarbeiten.
Wenn man ein nahtloses Nachbar-Terrain erstellen will, kann man z.B. den linken Rand des letzten terrains speichern, ein neues erstellen und dann das Gespeicherte auf den rechten Rand des neuen Terrains anwenden.
Terraformer erstellt zwar nicht direkt das .HMP-Format aber die .TXT-Dateien, die man in MED problemlos importieren kann.
Texturen sind bei Terrain ja sowieso nicht ganz so wichtig, denn das regelt am Ende ja der Shader?

Das Programm gibts hier: New Sound Factory
Außerdem gibt es dafür diverse Höhenkarten zum Runterladen.

Das Programm kostet nichts und die Höhenkarten können frei verwendet werden.

MfG
Posted By: Aaron

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/29/06 17:23

what's the lot system? how can I get into it? is their a place in the script where I change the value? also which would take more memory? would making a level in wed using blocks take more memory or would making a level as a model and loading it in wed would that take more memory? I heard that making your large level in a model form will take less memory than it would if you make a big level in wed with the block's and prefab's.
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/29/06 22:13

Quote:

what's the lot system? how can I get into it? is their a place in the script where I change the value? also which would take more memory? would making a level in wed using blocks take more memory or would making a level as a model and loading it in wed would that take more memory? I heard that making your large level in a model form will take less memory than it would if you make a big level in wed with the block's and prefab's.




That's a lot of questions for one paragraph.

Let's try and keep this thread on-topic. This is not a thread about terrain programs vs. modelling your own terrain vs. blocks in WED. This is a thread about which program you use to generate terrain, it's pros and cons and so on.

If anyone can help Aaron out, please do so via PM if possible...


So far though, good thread, let's keep it going!
Posted By: Aaron_H

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 04/30/06 21:33

This thread it really useful.
Thanks to it, I finally tried out the Freeworld 3D program.
It looks very nice and easy to use.

- Does anyone have any tips for creating terrain with it that can go into 3DGS well. Like the best formats to export to, or guidelines on how they should construct their terrain (max highmap size or whatever)?

Sorry if I sound pretty new to it. I've not messed around with the program before.
Thanks
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/04/06 22:24

Good question, Aaron... I have similar trouble, trying to get terrains from L3DT into 3DGS.. MED can't open any of the files it puts out, and it doesn't produce a greyscale and a seperate texture map like you'd expect it to...

If anyone can help either I or Aaron out, please do so!
Posted By: lionclaws

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/11/06 09:05

Aaron_H,you need to go check this Terrain tool out at:


http://www.freeworld3d.org/

Take your time and read,some really interesting features including roadway layout functionality.Not really expensive and worth the $$$.
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/12/06 04:33

Just felt I should post the end-result of what I've been able to do with World Machine (demo version):



You can see a great deal of terrain in the bg. Any thoughts?

Feel free to post pics of your own terrain, just be sure to mention which engine you created it with.
Posted By: trister

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/13/06 14:35

Can someone provide the link to IceX 2.0? or did I missed it reading this post?

Thanks,
Tri
Posted By: AndyH

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/13/06 15:40

http://www.stonehill-online.de/
Posted By: trister

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/13/06 16:21

I had a chance to check out IceX and the program looks really good.
Can anyone recommend more terrain programs that works well with GS?

Also I see most terrain editor exports to .X format. I must say I'm unfamiliar with how it works. Does a program export to .X with textures? if so then how do I get it to workin WED. I'm guessing I have to go through MED but not sure the process. Can anyone explain it to me?

Thanks,
Tri
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/13/06 23:11

@ Trister:

Regarding IceX 2.0, I haven't been able to try it out... Unfortunately there is no demo version. Essentially you have to take a stab in the dark and buy it, though I found this difficult because the entire purchase section is in German. Kindof turned me off from shelling out the cash.

You should give World Machine a whirl. Has a demo version, so it won't cost you a thing unless you want to make something commercial. It also has save capabilities. The pic I posted above was done in world machine - I used it to create a base terrain and export the greyscale map and import that into MED. There's a good tutorial on how to create terrain from start to finish (it uses world machine, though the tutorial doesn't go in depth on it), even using roads. You can skip most of that part of the tutorial as it's pretty complicated and there is much to do in photoshop.

Here's the link for World Machine:
World Machine

I'll try and dig up the link for the tutorial.

EDIT: Here it is!
Roads + Terrain Tutorial using World Machine

It's pretty good, shows you how to create terrain from scratch in WM, bring it into MED, applying the terrain detail map etc. all the way to the finished product in WED.

Posted By: trister

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/14/06 00:36

My thought exactly about IceX. With my luck I probably download a German version..hehe.I do like much about A6 compatibility since I'm just having trouble finding programs that work coincide with A6. I will give World Machine a try. Thank you.

Tri
Posted By: Penneywize9

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/14/06 00:48

Hey, I found the tutorial, I edited my last post and added it
Posted By: trister

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 05/14/06 00:59

Penney,

I'm downloading the tut right now. Thanks for finding the link. Also I saw the pic you did and it looked great. I like the snowy mountain in the back.

Edit: I just watched the tut and its a great tut. Alot to absorb but I think I'm beginning to undestand a little more about heightmap. Thanks again.
Posted By: Yu_Une

Re: Terrain-Creation Programs - Which do you prefe - 06/23/06 00:20

@pennywize9 click on the english flag as to euros/US dollars I'm not up on the exchange rate
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