i don't understand matrices

Posted By: Julius

i don't understand matrices - 04/11/04 19:56

I'm pretty sure this is the right forum. This is the only forum where I know that the viewers would no how to use matrices!

I don't get it. I know matrices are used in shaders. I also know that it isn't just used for shaders, because entity.u,v, and material.scale are going to be abandoned because you can use matrices for this.

How do matrices work?

I'm sorry I can't give more info about specifically what I need to know, but I have no idea how it works!?

Please help.

Julian
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/13/04 07:29

YOU ARE SHADER PROGRAMMERS!!! SURELY YOU CAN EXPLAIN A BIT ABOUT MATRICES, OR DIRECT ME TO A SITE THAT EXPLAINS IT?

PLEASE!?

Julian
Posted By: Alexander Esslinger

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/13/04 22:15

What do you want to know? About matrix in general or about how to work with them?
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/14/04 16:49

Quote:

I'm sorry I can't give more info about specifically what I need to know, but I have no idea how it works!?




Um... whatever you can tell me?

Mainly how to work with them, but I have no "general knowledge."

Thanks for whatever you can tell me, and thanks for the reply.

Julian
Posted By: Steempipe

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/14/04 18:03

Probably start with the DX SDK. Can I just flip out an answer that will make it all make sense?? No, I can't, so I give you these:

http://www.drunkenhyena.com/cgi-bin/view_article.pl?article=15

http://tomsdxfaq.blogspot.com/2002_05_01_tomsdxfaq_archive.html

http://www.screel.de/direct3d.net/tutorials/tutorial2/first_steps_to_animation.html
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/14/04 18:32

Wow, THANKS!!!!

Julian
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/14/04 19:18

Thanks for the help guys! Those were good links, but...

I guess I need to wait till I learn about them at school. I just don't get it.

Thanks anyway guys,

Julian
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 01:19

Yeah. You may need high-level math to understand matrices before you get to learn shaders.

But you can do a search on Matrix in here...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Matrix+Math+Tutorial

I hope this helps.
Posted By: Alexander Esslinger

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 04:15

Some basic things about matrices:
  • Matrices are like vectors of vectors, so they have rows and columns.
  • You can use matrices for transforming vectors. You do this by multipling the matrix with the vector. This way you can move, scale or rotate vectors.
  • If you multiply two matrices, the new matrix will combine the transformations of each matrix. So if you combine a rotation and scaling matrix, the vector will be rotated and scaled in one multiplication.
  • By multipling with the inverse of a matrix, you can make that matrix undo.

That's very general info, hope that helps you.
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 09:59

Wow thanks!! That is very helpful!

Julian
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 10:14

One more question. I am right now learning about matrices (thanks for the links, Alexander Esslinger), and I'd like to know beforehand if I can use them with entity positions. I know they can be used with skins, but can 3DGS also use matrices for manual scaling/rotating/transformation of entities as well? It's just something I'd like to experiment on.

Julian
Posted By: Alexander Esslinger

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 11:13

No. Internally it does that when you use x/y/z, scale_x/y/z or pan/tilt/roll, but you cannot change the matrix directly by script.

GameStudio does implement some matrices functions though, like multipling two matrices or creating the identity matrix, but that's it. The only thing they are imported for now is when using the new material effects. Transforming the model's UVs is also done in effects only.
Posted By: mk_1

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 20:03

So is it possible to transform angels of a matrix to another one (object matrix to world matrix so I can rotate a turret on my spaceship)? How can I do that?
Posted By: mk_1

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 20:03

So is it possible to transform angels of a matrix to another one (object matrix to world matrix so I can rotate a turret on my spaceship)? How can I do that?
Posted By: mk_1

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 20:03

So is it possible to transform angels of a matrix to another one (object matrix to world matrix so I can rotate a turret on my spaceship)? How can I do that?
Posted By: Alexander Esslinger

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/15/04 21:58

What do you mean by rotating the angles of a matrix?
Posted By: Julius

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/16/04 09:08

@ MK.1:

Do you mean using matrices to rotate an entity relative to its world pan, tilt, and roll? This is something I've really wanted to do!

Julian
Posted By: jerryH

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/17/04 04:12

A very good reference:
Meyer, Carl. (2000). Matrix analysis and applied linear algebra. Published by the Society for Industrial and Applied Maths (SIAM). Meyer is pretty definitive for matrices. If you peruse any of the standard computer graphics textbooks (e.g. Foley, Watt, etc.) you'll notice that a few topics recur (1) Homogenous coordinate systems, (2) matrices including inversion-rotation-transformation, and (3) vectors. You can throw in a big bundle of partial differential equation theory as well (continuous functions and friends)- cf. Calculus and Analytical Geometry. Unfortunately, I know of no book entitled 'Matrices without tears'.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: i don't understand matrices - 04/21/04 03:34

It depends on what you mean concerning your animations question(s).... You can actually use a matrix to deform your terrain or model! But to use it for animation would cost some time, and then again bones-animation is way easier... You should be able to adjust these animations (quasi-)realtime with c-script, so.........
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