Why do living things not rot?

Posted By: Damocles

Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 10:24

I have seen an interesting documaentation on chineese mummies yesterday.
These Mummies still had fresh, and flixible tissue after 2000 years.
Thy looked like a corpse that is just a few month old.

Now the question was, why they did not decay.

But what is more interesting in this relation:

Why dont living things rot?

What is thae difference. if an animal or plant dies, it
directly starts to rot and decay.
What is the mechanism that prevents living tisse not to rot?

The bacterias are already within the body, before death, bur they dont seem
to harm the body.

Does anyone know the biochemical protection, that is imidiatly lost in
case of death?
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 11:24

Quote:

What is the mechanism that prevents living tisse not to rot?




Our immune system takes care of that. Our bodies are continuously under attack from foreign invaders such as environmental toxins, pollutants, and germs. The immune system is our bodies natural defense mechanism against these attackers. The immune system is made up of white blood cells, organs and structures whose mission it is to identify and destroy disease causing organisms such as bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites. It’s the immune systems that'll protect the body against these foreign invaders, who would otherwise cause damage and/or rot. As for bacteria, fungi and parasites, they need enough oxigine to survive and to be able to help the rotting or decomposition process. Viruses usually die once the host cell they're living in died too, so when someone dies they die too. Organisms like maggots get attracted by the smell of dead flesh. That smell is the result of bacteria and fungi and parasites consuming dead flesh. Once flies, bugs, worms and other bigger organisms get attracted by the dead flesh decomposition will go fast.

To prevent decay having no oxigine around the dead body will help the most. Things like salt usually kill bacteria or slow them down and the salty smell stop the attraction of say maggots and the like. Largest part of decomposition happens not because of bacteria, but because of organisms.

Quote:

Does anyone know the biochemical protection, that is imidiatly lost in
case of death?




As long as most cells are alive, biochemical protection will be active, once organs and glans are dead and can't produce more anti bodies or react in general to the invaders, it will go very fast. They'll become literally outnumbered very fast, this happens in a matter of hours depending on the size of the dead body,

Cheers
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 11:49

So it is all the dominace of the immune system...
Plants must have them too ?

Ok, regarding the chinese mummies, that where not salt-dried as in Egypt,
they must have killed all bacterias that could decay the body.

Maybe they used Pastorisation ?
Heating up the body above 78Celsius for a while, to kill every bacteria....
And then sealed the body hermetically in the coffin.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 13:51

Quote:

So it is all the dominace of the immune system...
Plants must have them too ?




Yes, plants have it too, but they tend to be more vulnerable I think, because I'm not sure if plants have a system that can actively adapt to changing bacterias and things like that. Things need to go quite wrong before we humans actually get hurt by bacterias.

Quote:

Ok, regarding the chinese mummies, that where not salt-dried as in Egypt,
they must have killed all bacterias that could decay the body.




Generally speaking mummification will be the result of preservation by either intentional or accidental exposure to chemicals, extreme cold, very low humidity, or airlessness (oxigine-less is a bit more accurate). I know of some Chines e mummies who were found in ice, but I don't think you're talking about them, are you?

Cheers
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 17:41

I was referring to this mummy:

over 2000 yaers old, and still liquid blood in the veins.
Even the arms can still be bend. Pretty impressive how the chinese conserved the
bodies.


http://www.zdf-enterprises.de/en/diva_mu...rom=64&l=en
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 19:13

Ah, yes, those are impressive indeed, I've read about them before. As for their exact mummification I don't know, but I would place my bet on some sort of poison/toxic this in conjunction with an airtight and oxigine low tomb, could very well have such a great mummification as result. They say environmental circumstances were far from optimal for mummification, so I expect a method which involved chemicals.

When toxic levels are very high in a body, bacterias and the like will naturally get no chance and will be slowed down tremendously. When a body is filled with toxics, it will decay at a much much slower rate,

Cheers
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 20:11

yes, but how can they apply toxins into the inner Body,
The Brain for example was also fully intact.

Maybe they also heated up the body
(below Boiling point)
To kill all bacterias.
(The way you also preserve Food for some time.)

And this already within the toxic liquid.

This way all germs are killed, an no new germs can enter the body
through the liquid.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 21:09

Although theoretically it's a possibility, I think there's a problem with heating up a body. How would you do it? Boiling in (toxic) water isn't really an option, you'd definately damage the tissue, especially if the body dries out afterwards. Try boiling a chicken and let it dry out, it'll be a heap of flesh, by far not as flexible and intact as these mummies. Perhaps the boiling doesn't last very long, but to kill of all the bacteria in 1 human body you need quite some time I think.

As for the temperature you'd definately need to reach a boiling point, otherwise most of the germs/bacterias won't die. Not all germs/bacterias life untill the boiling point of water is reached off course, but a small majority and the more hazardous bacterias usually do not die untill boiling point is reached. Hence, if you never heat it up untill the boiling point it wouldn't have maximum effect.

Quote:

yes, but how can they apply toxins into the inner Body,




Good question, I don't know, perhaps applying a thick layer on the outside skin is enough to even cover the inside?

I do know that some Chinese emperors/high placed persons used to believe that they would become immortal by swallowing very hazardous toxic cocktails potions or 'tablets' near the end of their reign. A slow and very painful suicide, but I'm not sure if this was common for mummies at all. I do know that such entoxicated bodies usually are very good conserved.

All in all, I'd like to know how dry these mummies are and in what temperature they originally were found, because somehow the used mummification process seems to be somewhat of a mystery indeed, very interesting.

Cheers
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/29/06 21:26

I saw the video where they excravated the mummy.
it had a wet skin, an was not dried out at all.

But the Bodies startet to rot quickly, whenever the coffin was opened.

So they had to cool it right away.

No other mummy was ever in this good shape, without being dried out.
(Except corpses in iceblocks)
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/30/06 01:59

If they were wet, then probably they have been conserved this well because of the high acidity of the water they lay in. (In the netherlands we have several 'bog bodies' who are well conserved as well because of the airtight situation of the bodies being burried beneath the bog and high acid water, effectively sealing it.) It makes sense that it begins to rot fast after those coffins were opened, because that would mean no airtight situation anymore and oxigine would get in, this overall change of circumstances would make it possible to continue the process of decay.

About Bog People

Cheers
Posted By: A.Russell

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 12/31/06 07:18


Cold preserves things well. These Inkan mummies found in Chili look like they could open thier eyes and start walking around again: http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/32770.html

The Egyptians tried to remove all the liquids and mushy bits of the body and placed them in preserving jars that were buried with the mummies. They would even scoop the brains out. Normally, wet things rot faster than dry.
Posted By: JetpackMonkey

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 01/04/07 15:48


and then there's the REANIMATOR
Posted By: Blattsalat

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 01/04/07 16:27

How can you say living things dont rott:

cheers
Posted By: in_christ

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 03/11/07 16:05

A simple answer is Living things regenerate their cells continuously, So they can maintain healthy function. When a living organism can not regenerate cells then they begin to degenerate and that leads to death. When Organic life dies it begins to decompose because the cells die. The individual cells can continue to live for several days after a organic organism or a person dies. But eventually the cells brake down and die. So the body decomposes. In certain Conditions organism's can live for thousands of years After the entity dies, But this is rare.
Posted By: xXxGuitar511

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 03/11/07 19:11

Courtney Love is not living....

She died along time ago... she just doesn't know it yet.
Posted By: phil3d

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 03/11/07 21:29

i heard that asian monks also can conserver their bodys with deep meditation. they found a corpse of a monk who died while he meditated it was in good condition. what do you think of that?
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 03/12/07 03:22

That meditation is not very heathly

He is probably just conserverd due to the cold and dry climate.
Posted By: PHeMoX

Re: Why do living things not rot? - 03/12/07 14:59

Quote:

i heard that asian monks also can conserver their bodys with deep meditation. they found a corpse of a monk who died while he meditated it was in good condition. what do you think of that?




Meditating doesn't improve conservation, however if someone is skinny and overall 'dry' (as in not much meat with more water inside, that will improve conservation in general.

Cheers
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