EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn

Posted By: Pappenheimer

EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 19:07

We've been talking about Microsoft and monopolism. I was very astonished that there had been some poeple who don't care about that.
The EU at least does. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/7266629.stm
Posted By: Michael_Schwarz

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 19:25

as if they'd care about that little money
Posted By: D3D

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 19:32

Besides that think about who is going to pay that ^^
Posted By: frazzle

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 19:46

Quote:

Besides that think about who is going to pay that ^^




MS will pay it
Besides, if they would increase the price of their products thus making the consuments paying more thus compensating the fine, that would eventually turn into the same situation as present if you think about it ^^
Anyway, I second with what Michael said.

Cheers

Frazzle
Posted By: Leonardo

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 19:59

I would like to know why this fine was imposed! I mean, Microsoft created this code on their own, why in the world would they need to share it?? Of course, if they do, it would mean that more software can be used on their OS, but if they decide not to share, then that is what they CAN do!! The developers should stop whining and realize this is a competitive market, they shouldn't rely on EU to solve their problems! This is pure business, if you don't get the code from Microsoft, focus on Linux or any other OS!! And it is arrogant to judge Microsoft for developing a really good OS at the right time and becoming so successful! I would like to see anyone else in Bill Gate's position - creating an OS that most of us use and then being fined for it!

In short - this fine is bul***it!

EDIT:
Quote:

Microsoft was also given 120 days to give programming codes to rivals in the server market




The word that grabbed my attention was RIVALS
The situation where you must share information not with your co-workers, friends or allies, but with your rivals is not normal! EU talks about competition etc. yet they are the ones destroying it! As I mentioned, there are numerous options for software developers to turn to.
Posted By: Michael_Schwarz

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 20:09

Quote:

I...Microsoft for developing a really good OS...




I doubt that
Posted By: Leonardo

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 20:15

Well you can doubt that, that is your choice, but do you have any facts on your side, that are stronger than the fact that Windows is the OS most of the people around the world use? I can answer that for you - No! Because there are many factors that make an OS good, not just stability or open-source capabilities, for example. In the case of Windows this factor is ease-of-use, and judging by the numbers, most of the consumers consider this factor to be important!
By the way, you might get ideas that people don't choose Windows, they are forced to use it, because it comes pre-installed on their PC's, though I can say that that doesn't matter, because they can install a free Linux version on it, nevertheless, if they choose to do it!
Posted By: Slin

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 20:29

Leonardo, there is the competitive order in the eu and everyone putting products on the market in the eu has to stay within these rules, microsoft broke them and has to pay for it now.
Posted By: Leonardo

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 20:42

Well then, if these rules dictate that Microsoft has to provide the code for their product, then why doesn't the EU fine every software developer out there who is not providing THEIR code? Also, tell me exactly what rules Microsoft must follow in the case of Windows Media Player? This is the one thing that really drives me crazy - the EU says that Windows cannot be bundled together with Windows Media Player, but CAN be sold together with rival products! Where's the sense in that???

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a true MS fan, I'm just using common sense! And before you post comments about my arguments or Microsoft, try to put yourselves in Bill Gate's shoes. Imagine for just a second, that you create an OS. It becomes popular, millions of people start using it. You have worked quite hard to get it all done, then you create a Media Player to go along with your product for free. And you get SUED!! Would it seem normal if you were the one getting sued?
Posted By: Damocles

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:19

The thing is more about counter-monopoly legislation than about "morals" or whatever.

As Microsoft does have a quasi Monopoly (not matter for what reason they reached it),
the state has to enforce trust laws.
Monopolies can simply take higher prices than a "working" market. (monopolistic rent)
This is why the state has to enforce either a price on the monopolies revenues,
or implement anti-trust limitations.

Since Microsoft violated these anti-trust limitations they have to pay that fine.

The reason for Microsoft might be "un-competative" behavior, or simply that they
made the best running OS for the mass market. I does not really matter.
Monopoly is monopoly.
If Linux where the only OS on the market, beeing fully controlled by "Linus Industries", they would
be treated the same way.
Posted By: Leonardo

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:25

I would agree with you if I would consider Microsoft a monopoly! There are many options for me, as a consumer, to choose - Linux, MacOS, etc. and many programs I can use, so I don't think Microsoft is a true monopoly. Think about it this way - if Microsoft was a true monopoly that could control everything, then they could set prices sky-high, right?? No, because if they did that, I and many more, would turn to Linux!
But I guess this subject needs a clear definition of the word "MONOPOLY"
Posted By: Toast

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:28

Quote:

Well then, if these rules dictate that Microsoft has to provide the code for their product, then why doesn't the EU fine every software developer out there who is not providing THEIR code?



It wasn't about giving out their code but Microsoft just wants to get paid for info on how to program something for Windows. That way Mircosoft uses its position to prevent especially some open source stuff from being ported to Windows and thus they use their monopoly status. There for example is Samba which could only be developed after a foundation funded the needed 10,000 €...

Enjoy your meal
Toast
Posted By: mk_1

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:31

At least Microsoft tries to be a monopoly.
Just look at the browser wars and especially the server market. There's reason to force Microsoft to make their server software open source.
And would you really turn to Linux? An OS where most of the games don't work, a lot of graphic cards and other hardware has compability issues? I guess you won't. And now think about WHY most hardware works on Windows but not on Linux.
Posted By: Leonardo

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:40

Yes, I would turn to Linux, because if everyone started using Linux all of a sudden, then do you really think there would be no developers creating games for Linux? The reason most of the stuff works on Windows, is because it was made for Windows and that is because Windows is the OS most of the consumers use! The developers make software for the platform that would give them more profits!
But you also have to think, were the developers physically forced to create software for Windows? No, everyone has a choice. If you made a wrong one, don't blame other companies for that!
Posted By: mk_1

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:46

Wrong, there's no choice, there's only a market and nobody can survive with creating games for a platform that isn't widely used.

Also nobody will - all of sudden - change the OS because there's no software yet. You can't just say "friggin' Windows is to expensive. Now I'm using Linux".

Maybe there's software but then it's mostly open source... and here's the problem: it must be compatible to Microsoft's OS but the want you to pay a fee for information about their protocols.

Got that?
Posted By: Leonardo

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 21:54

Well, someone here needs to learn a bit about business and how consumers choose their products! Every year, more and more consumers start using Linux as opposed to Windows! And every year, more and more software is being developed for the open-source OS! See the pattern? If that doesn't prove that everyone has a choice, then I don't know what will!
Let's think about a situation where Linux becomes more popular than Windows, because at these consumer rates and the fines being forced on Microsoft, it is possible! For what OS do you think the developers would start creating software? For what OS would people start creating games? The one that is more popular or less popular? Catch my drift?

EDIT: Also, I would like to know what OS are you all using? And I mean all of the people who posted here!
Posted By: Marco_Grubert

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 22:00

I still don't get it. Why must Microsoft remove their Media Player? There are free and commercial media players out there. Nothing in Windows prevents you from installing them. And why do they have to provide their source code for "server products"? The Wikipedia article only focusses on the Samba protocol. In particular MS was sued for making available the source code but not the specs- with source code and a network analyzer why do you need the specs ?

It really seems to me tha the EU overstepped its bounds here.
Posted By: FBL

Re: EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn - 02/27/08 23:30

German article:

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,538189,00.html
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