WILL push A7 to its limit!

So the "Is 3dgs dying" thread has inspired me and my partner to attempt to push 3dgs to the limit, or close to it in that matter, with a new high end boating game we will be developing. I will be doing the scripting and my friend will be making most of the models etc. So the game should look something like this when finished. A simple storyline will take you to ocean boat races all over the world (possibly even Antarctica). You will go through different powerboats as you progress through the game. In the end you win and get an ultimate powerboat as your prize for being N1.

Features of the game will include-
• 3d powerboats
• good lookin 3d water
• icebergs for the antarctica lvl
• high quality skyboxes
• interesting storyline
• smooth cameras that follow your boat when racing
• fog
• wakes behind the powerboats
• AI competitors
• minimap, speedometers, healthbars, etc
• much more

The game will be made with a7 7.77, and if any of you have things you can help me out with such as good Shaders I might need, models, skyboxes, or scripts, will be awesome and will also shorten the time it will take me and my small team of friends to make the game. If you know good scripts that could be useful for the game, please mention them to me. Thanks Guys!

Great idea!
will the game become commercial in the end?

Why use A7.77? Sounds like a warez version to me...
It has lots of known bugs. You better upgrade to A7.86.

And where is this limit anyway? The limit is only your hardware and your imagination

At this moment, I dont really care, really. The fact is that 3DGS seriously need good game which you can't achieve with free version. At least I can suggest, he can make it with free version and have anyone with pro version compile it.

thanks guys. i just updated to 7.86, finally and i do have the PRO version so 3dgs wont be a problem. I could really use some good music (mainly action type), and high res skyboxes though. Any tips will be greatly appreciated and I am starting the game tomorrow, once complete it probably will go commercial. Happy New Year!

It'd be a bit more exciting if you were pushing A8 to its limit, but good luck anyway.

Jibb

Nice to hear that you are going to make such a game
I could do some music if you like to.
also, if you need them, I could donate some environment textures including normal maps.

WILL see.

Way to go, to grab some free models and textures. Are you all really that desperate?

Well, I won a contest by doing that .
If you are just going to buy models and textures, you'd need to do it all by one or two companies/freelancers to maintain consistency in style. If you are able to modify free textures and models so that they match a style yourself, you're probably going leaps faster. Even though the models in general have less quality, it may still look good as a whole.

It can be a development course choice too. First building a prototype, then if the project is a success, let a company remake the assets.

Awesome

Thanks for the support guys, just started the game. Roel I could use some of your music and textures yes. And I would really like some custom made skyboxes, good looking, no cartoonish ones. I could also use some code snippets, if you know some that could be useful in my game please post them here.

Why do you have two accounts, FutureRaptor aka Gorilla123?

FutureRaptor is my noob brother's account, i dont use it.

nice

Sorry, but I really don't see this project going anywhere :\

It can be a good idea to first build some of the project,
and then show some screen shots of what you have, so we can see what the project is going to be.
you don't need a lot of art, just placeholders and some code.

Will do that as soon as possible, probably in about 3 days to be exact. Any ideas of what shader I should use for my water?

This sentence destroyed my imagination you will push A7 to its limits.

lol.

You needed so long?

This is just the problem, though. You can't hope to "push A7 to its limit" by using freebie shaders and models. If it were that easy, we wouldn't have a "3DGS is dying" thread in the first place.

Making games is hard, and if you want decent art/shaders/code/whatever, 99% of the time, it will cost you money.

That last 1% is reserved for people who A) Do everything themselves, or B) Build half of the game, then manage to attract free team members by accident.

i didnt say i wanted a free one, i just asked about any good ones out there. and it is because of people like you who discourage people from trying that there is no good high quality games for 3dgs. Seriously guys give it time..

Wondering why you are asking about shaders at the very beginning of the project.
Shaders can most time be exchanged with minimum problems and can still be implemented when the game has reached advanced stage.

You should care about many different things first.

so you want do do wave race with powerboats, with A7, free stuff that pushes it to the limits and some guys are STILL believing this will actually happen?
shees i was gone for what, not even two months and THIS is it now? seriously?

Now let's not start making personal attacks. Don't get me wrong, you're free to give this a shot. At the least, it will give you some experience. But good, quality games come from experienced teams with a budget.


Maybe you should give the project time. Keep it personal, don't reveal it until you REALLY have something to show. When you stomp on to the forums and announce your project with a "" smilie, you're not asking for time. You're asking for applause.

Now the rest of us have seen so many people stomp on to the forums and ask for instant support and applause that we just can't take people like that seriously. Sorry.

So here's my advice: if you want to keep working on the project (as I'm pretty sure you do), don't bother saying anything about it unless you have a question, in which case we'll be glad to help you.

wow, harsh crowd. @Gorilla123 - I wish you and your team the best of luck and i'm looking forward to seeing something amazing come out of this. This community has seen alot projects start and never finish. Personally, i have nothing to show for my self but a collection of things i started, and got no where with but i keep on trying. Best of Luck!!

some tips:

- don't start with great shaders and graphics.
- you can use placeholder models(ie boxes) to simulate the game. these placeholders can be replaced later with real models and textures.
- first focus on the gameplay, it is more important than great graphics.
- maybe you can learn from liam's game gravix: it is a simple game, but it is getting very far.

good luck, and if you have something to show, we'll like to see it.

So are you suggesting that GREAT graphics cant be attained with this engine and free stuff[shaders, sound, scripts] ?

note he did say that he had a friend doing models, until we see what his friend can do, who knows, besides when i started i had an artist too and he wasnt particularly the greatest but as time and the project went by, his skills became great, finishing a model a day sometimes even without lack of quality

so please state if youre saying HE cant push the engine using free stuff or youre saying that this engine CANT create amazing scenery using free stuff, note the keyword being "free"

@Gorilla123: i know you can do this just make sure you DO NOT focus on graphics first, use some boxes and placeholders, focus on what makes a game fun, your focus should be the CAMERA and vehicle control... personally i'd use the physics engine [ode/physX] to control the boats but not everyone can handle doing that i guess.. this project doesnt sound that huge, so i think you can pull it off.

just dont focus on shaders, doing effects are fine though, get the basic ones up, create the game using placeholders and get the boat control to atleast LOOK like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RITHC8DWqxg

i've noticed a few boating video games from 3dgs and lets be honest, they were bad, one guy chose to not take advice and say that he had it covered though it was obvious his game sucked, so if your response is anything like that then .. good luck

BTW dont mind the negative critics, this forum has more than enough reasons to talk you down because we've seen these 'dream projects' before, however be happy because atleast now you should be motivated to prove us wrong and you need negative critics so you can know what to fix

i'm not saying you will or wont make it but i think you should start working, show updates and the community will guide you along the way, talking about pushing A7 will only make us look down on you if the first video/screenshot we see from you doesnt actually "push A7"

i WOULD suggest some water shaders but i dont support you even looking into shaders yet

goodluck

-Start with a small level with great shaders and grafics.
You´ll get an instant impression on how your game will look like. It will help you to develop a style.

-Don´t use placeholders, because you´ll struggle when it comes
to polycount & texture sizes. On top of that, you´ll have to do 50% of the level design twice. Unnecessary additional work, imo.

-First focus on grafics, because actually you want to attract people at the very first beginning to make them curious.
Well said in another thread: They are coming for eye candy, they are staying for content.


My project works this way and it evolves better than I´ve thought at beginning.
But (!!) in the end you´ll to extermine your workflow by yourself. Because it will differ and depends on the project, your skills and your budget (time & money).

@ fogman
hmmm I think you're right... at some points
funny to see that people work that different.
for me it works to use placeholders.

but as you said: it depends on the project.

i guess he COULD work on gameplay after he did set up a small decent looking scene but setting up a decent looking scene isnt exaclty easy, atleast if he gets his content done correctly, an artist might see potential and be willing to help, care should be put into how the game feels.


sorry i personally dont believe in alot of this AT ALL, first off, if he doesnt use placeholders, what does he do until that miraculous day come when he finally gets that boat model he wanted, dont SHOW us your placeholder, use it to get a feel for your game, ofcouse we dont literally mean using a box, but he can use some lowpoly free boat model for now, personally i think he's already failed if he spends two days tweaking graphics and then all we see is some halfglory screenshot


not everyone has your potential
yes i was the one that said people come for eyecandy and stay for content but good gameplay falls under eyecandy also, ofcouse by placeholders we do expect it to have a basic look of the game:

for example, this is the start of scion using placeholders, first thing i do when i start a project is get it working, if your game can impress people using no shaders and placeholders then youre on the right path, someone WILL step forward to assist, artists tend to rather put their work in something that seems fruitful and i dont think a placeholder is necessarily ugly, as long as it provides whats needed to start working, a fully animated model can also be a placeholder, as in:


this is a few months later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZNo51EIG8M

then few weeks:


then we got to here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4isYeoyw9c


your method works in some situations, i just dont see why someone with low resources should spend days/weeks trying to make eyecandy, some water, a terrain, skybox, free boat model and some sprites seems enough for him to make something that would appeal to people IF he did gameplay right

I think both methods can work well. But Fogman is right when it comes to the point of learning how far you can go until you reach limits. Because of that he already wants to use textues and shaders in a prototype to see how it works, how it scales, how detailed he can go later on.

I agree with that. You dont need the prettiest textures for that, but you need textures, normal maps, spec maps, maybe even displacement and opacity. You need all this for testing.
And when you texture everything with some kind of a measurement pattern displaying 1 meter or similar, then you will not see how many draw calls a final level will create. You will not experience how many draw calls will bring your game down, how you have to optimize, to copy several textures into one, to group models, whatever.

Because of this he suggested to work as close as possible to a final result. And it indeed makes a lot of sense.

hmm well i guess we all have our methods, though personally all that was stated above still seems to fall under 'placeholders' in my eyes

i do wish him luck

Yes, it can be done with "placeholders" of course. But I saw un-textured characters in your prototype. And a character or a weapon often needs the most texture resolution in a game. Without it you get a wrong impression of the performance of your game.

yes thats true and i understand your point, maybe i need to keep that in mind for

those stuff were untextured because i couldnt do any better at the time, couldnt have waited until i got textures and such, i just needed to prototype the gameplay which has been enough to get me some talented artists

You can always use an single colored 512x512 or what ever size you target texture for the models to get adequate impact on performance.

Single colored tga, 1024x1024 pixels: 32kb
Real tga Texture, 1024x1024 pixels: 3MB

Same goes for shaders, lights, polycount, AI behavior...

For protoyping / testing I use placeholders as well, but not for the final game because there are too much dependencies.

No. TGA does not use any compression whatsoever. Thus Single Color TGA: 3MB.

Wiki says:
"Image data may be stored raw, or optionally, a lossless PackBits RLE compression can be employed."

You can use compressed tga´s with gamestudio, Gimp has tga compression for example and I use it every time.

Even if you use compressed tgas
they are stored unpacked state in video memory.
Which means they could be 32kb (1MP) on the disk
and 3 MB (1MP) in video memory.
Btw, I haven't tested it, but it seems loigical to me.

probably we should have a seperate thread for this,
a summary of the points mentioned here might contain useful tips.

This depends on the texture format. Yes, tga can be compressed (I use GIMP as well). And you could also use DDS. DDS DXT1 as an example can even compress TGA files to about 25 percent of original size. And a game can transfer it in this compressed small size to the GPU. The GPU will decompress it with the S3T algorithms.

But as you can see: All this could be tested when you try to work with real textures instead of untextured place holders. And it can be a waste of time when you have to rework each texture and model just to reduce number of draw calls or to reduce data transfer to the GPU, or memory usage.

Apart from DDS format, all formats like PCX and TGA will stay uncompressed in video memory.
So what will differ probably is the loading time. But hey - you're in development. You will have no idea what the total loading time will be in the end as you still have to add many things.

Important is the performance during play - and for this dummy textures are fine.

As far as I know it not only influences the loading time. It also influences the transfer to the graphics card and thus can have an impact at rendering speed when there are many switches between different textures.

With that in mind it could be in some situations (especially with bigger textures) that DDS also improves the performance. But to be honest, I did no benchmark so far. This is pure theory.

As I develop my levelgeometry in conjunction with the textures, this would be no option for my project.
However, as I´ve stated - each master to his own technique.

I'm not sure if we're still talking about the same thing.

If you're talking about multiple textures vs. single texture you're right.

I was talking about single "empty" texture. Apart from DDS the engine uncompresses any compressed format anyway internally which my result in different loading time for "empty" and "filled" textures. But rendering time should be the same.

If that is true then it is not a very smart design of 3DGS. DDS should not be internally decompressed, it should be sent in compressed state to the graphics card.

What I am talking about is indeed a good testbed for checking:
- how big can textures be
- what format is best
- is it better to have little small vs. a few big textures (containing other textures via atlas)
- is it better to have bigger poly models vs. many with small poly budget
- how many texture memory can be used (with or without lightmaps)
- how much does it help to remove non-visible polygons
- how big is the impact of several shaders
- how big is the impact of animated models
- ...

All this can be seen best with a sample scene containing everything in the aimed quality. And if someone dont has the models and textures, it is easy and really cheap to get them from decent indie-friendly shops

"Apart from DDS"...

I do not know what the engine does with DDS. My guess is it decompresses only when hit information and the like is needed, but does not interrupt the pipeline to the graphics card.

sorry i took so long, i am very busy.
i say HE cant do it. I know the engine CAN but HE cannot...

Soooo, how far are you?

Ah, someone searching for podcast topics.

Where can I find new screens?

I think there are no screens... They are still pushing

Pushing can take years

Push! PUSH! Don't forget to breathe. You can do it. Almost there. PUSH!

That's where games come from, right?

Jibb

You made it ugly. Thanks.

push! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7nWwyC3AJI

lol

Push it to the limit!

You`ll get the Duke out of Acknex. I know it. Take this as soundtrack..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhsTmiK7Q2M

(Seriously: I love it! I really do. )

Soundtrack is just great! I love it too!!!

There is a guy with an incredible 3d showreel somewhere on vimeo. Maybe he can join and help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4onJ7Z2MLI PUSH IT!

Afaik its against the rules to push threads

push it Uh baby baby. Cool songs.

good, lets push this to morbius then...

Bump, where are the screens? Or is A7 exhausted from all the pushing?

I bumped the thread instead of pushing it.

Our new moderator, ladies and gentlemen!

Come to think of it, when did that happen, by the way? Your name is blue all of a sudden. How did it happen? Crayons? I demand answers!

I blackmailed JCL

Same.

Sounds plausible. Alright, carry on.



Wait. Waitwaitwaitwaitwait. Now Otter's name is pink? Why all the colors? WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS FORUM

+++++

Finally, a word regarding the topic. Yes, the title is attention-grabbing at its worst, yes we all saw it coming, and yes, they made promises they shouldn't have. But they are new to all of this. We all went through this. I think despite all this, their heart was in the right place. They wanted to create a game with a certain standard, and it's a good thing to have high goals. It's sad that they didn't make it, but given how predictable that was, bumping this thread on purpose, isntead of letting it die, really only serves to embarass the original poster.

Which, I'm pretty sure, is exactly what the intention behind both recent bumps was. Yeah, alright, it might be funny, but it's also a bit pathetic and not at all friendly to new users. So yeah. I don't approve.

[But I'm not 100% positive if he was using warez or not. If so, I guess he deserves the mocking]

Thanks, my rant is over now.

Hmmm... good idea.

I had forgotten about this thread until JustSid brought it up again. The fact that he remembered to revive this after all this time, just so he could embarrass the OP, is mind-boggling.

I want my Name to be in black XD
Also, i have a screenshot for you:

still alive

Actually I just saw another member in this thread via "Who is online".

That doesn't at all change the reasoning behind bumping it. It's still to humiliate the guy.

Yeah, alright, this is your style, whatever that means. But still, as far as I am concerned, this makes you look worse, and not the original poster. Failing to create a game of incredible standard? Big deal, happens to almost everyone.

Its not about the failed project, its about how the OP said how great its going to be and then this hilarious post with his "noob brother"... Yeah sure.

Sure, he got overly excited. But really, that applies to nine out of ten newbies. Hell, it applies to me, and I've been doing this for a while now (not successfully, some might rightfully argue, but I feel at least some (maybe small, maybe tiny) level of experience I should be entitled to).
And as far as his "noob brother" is concerned, personally, I think he got mocked (more than) enough after he originally posted it. No reason to bring it up months after.

well error, dungeond eities is cool, even though i am not active in the forums (or the game in general at the moment. so little time...) so id say you found your style. and that says something.

truth is, every newcomer thinks he can show us how to do it. its true. we all were like that. heck, remember balad of angels? the game turrican made where i egoistically slapped my name on? yeah, you remember that.

howeve,r and thats the difference, this guy was incredibly dumb. it was a whole new level of dumb. sure, we were all dumb but not that dumb. at least not that i remember...

And it never gets boring to laugh about them.
Look, I see your point, and I didn't bumped the thread just to humiliate the OP (oh wait, no, I did it for the lulz which is probably the same =/), anyway I talked about the very same thread in Bielefeld and made fun of it. Then I saw this thread in the who is online list and thought "hell yeah, bump it for the lulz" and here we are.

We laugh about all newbies, some loud and some quiet. You laughed about me and my projects in the past and thats totally okay (ofc only in retroperspective). Its part of every community and this thread was predestinated from the very beginning for this.

Not about you, specifically, but yeah, I'm not a saint. I used to post long, elaborate posts about newbie projects that pointed out almost any flaw. I went through some of them again recently, and going through them is awful, because, and there's no better way of saying it, I was an absolute, complete asshole.

Maybe I should actually apologize to some people (though, I'm afraid, most of them aren't here anymore. Lukas is still here, right? I think I owe him an apology). Because, unlike you, I believe that this is not okay. It's never okay to laugh at people, and it's especially not okay to laugh at people who spend time to create something interesting, and fun. Gamedesign is, in some ways, a very altruistic hobby. After all, you always finetune it to improve someone else's experience, it's never about your own. It's about "the player", hopefully many other people, who you just want to have a good time. Yeah, of course there's also the commercial side of "I'm makin' millions!". But really, this may not quite apply to many of us people here.


Bashing someone because he or she falls short of high expectations, makes mistakes, or thinks too highly of themselves... It all seems like a cheap way to get laughs. It is easy, and you usually don't lose anything doing it. But at the same time, it's not a good move. It's arrogant, and it's pathetic.

I'm guilty of it, and I try to improve that. I'm sure I fall short of that goal.
I'm not proud of the times where, to put it bluntly, I often was an ass. If anyone from back then that I bashed on reads this, my apologies. I went too far. Sorry.

I had quite a lot fun in this thread, so mission accomplished? I don't know, but I don't feel like the OP of this thread spend any time at all creating something interesting. He certainly learned from it, like we all learn by doing things...
There is a difference between noob projects and projects so stupid that I either want to cry or just laugh. This thread here, this project this thread was about totally falls under the latter part.

Yes, I'm still here, although I haven't posted so much lately.
Are you referring to your post in my Rudi the Tin thread? I still remember it, not because I was angry, but because it actually made me laugh.

idk, there is a sort of camaraderie to a forum though. for instance, Ive got into it a little with some forum members (none pop to mind immediately) but i hold no ill will, and i laugh at others the same way that people should laugh at me. Its nothing personal against the OP, its a lesson in tough skin in a social group. its phenomenon seen around the world and its a proven social construct. That is why hazing is a part of many tight nit groups. Shared hardship often brings people closer. I know it sounds counter intuitive but its the natural process of the introduction of a new social group member to prove that not only does he have the heart to stick in there when its tough, to stay loyal to the forum, but to also be able to take honest criticism down the road when he is able to make something significant.

this thread's title combined with the "cool guy"-smiley right next to it makes me chuckle a little every time I see it.

What is OP? And this thread is sucks, just one newbie came down and wanted everyone help them in making next doom killer. If they were "pushing" anything to it's limits, I think there were no need to make it so official. They could just push it and publish it, that's all... Reading first post makes me laugh again and again, and not only the first post, but how everyone believed and followed that dude Hey and, since everyone changing they name's colors, I want my nick name change it's color too! I want it to be green

1. Sorry, Error014, could you show me any of those posts where you bashed anyone? Can't imagine that.


2.
And, it has been always feedback at its best. Detailled precise work that you offered to someone that you never met before.

3.
Where did anyone laugh about Sid? Can't imagine that.
Any examples?

OP means original poster, the threadstarter.

I got it now, thank you

Everyone? How many is "everyone" in Russian? I'm guessing it's much closer to English's "no one" than English's "everyone".

Jibb

You know, I wasn't born like this 19 years ago
You can find some actual example which isn't too long ago (just four years) by looking at my very first posts I made in this forum.

19? I always thought you were ~24.

Do I have to? As I said, it's not something I'm particulary proud of.

But yes, take that "Rudi the Tin"-thread from way back then as an example.
I'm not sure if posting the link here actually has a similar effect as bumping this - as in, I'm only doing this to embarrass the original poster - but as Lukas just said he wasn't angry back then, it's probably okay to post it here. So there you go. Lukas, if you want me to remove this link, just let me know and I'll edit it out.

Now, what do we see here? Sure, there's a lot of criticism in there, and some of it is definately valid criticism. I'm sure we can all agree that the scenes lack detail, and there is an exciting style missing.

But the point here is, it is obvious that back then, Lukas was still a beginner at this (he later tells us that this is his second project, and the first that required graphics). Fair criticism is all well and good - but it should go without saying that one should go easy on beginners. Comments like

or


are really unnecessary. They don't add any value to the post, apart from, maybe, some kind of comedic value. However, that comedic value comes at a price, and that is humiliating the creator. Now that I read it, it's not as strong as I remembered it, and it's definately not a personal attack, and I'm glad for it. But still, those comments aren't particulary motivating.

Negative criticism is important, and one can learn a lot from it. And it is important to distinguish what is true and should be fixed from personal attacks that should be ignored. For the critic, it's easy to write, and it can easily be made entertaining.

There is a lot that can be said about this topic. In retrospect, one must admire Lukas' attitude he kept throughout it. He kept his chin up, responded to criticism, and improved the game. For that, he should be applauded.
Germanunkol later posts something interesting, and he's spot on on most things. He actually called me out on that behaviour, and he was right back then, and still is today.

Sadly, there's other examples, but maybe we can leave it at that.

Anyway, Lukas - I'm glad you didn't took it personal or anything like that. Still, I do believe maybe an apology is in order. So there you go: My apologies.

~~~~~~~~~~~

However... This is a different thing to this. After all, I didn't bump that thread periodically in hopes of having the OP admit to failing. This, I feel, is a different level that in my opinion goes to far (though of course posts like mine in Lukas' thread do so, too)

That is what I wanted to say. I don't think arguing about this would really bring us any further, as we both have stated our opinions, and we pretty obviously disagree on that issue.


One final thing: Doing something "for the lulz" is by far the most obnoxious and stupid comment one can make. It's helping no one, and in some ways, depending on context, it too is arrogant - but since it uses the - for the lack of a better term - "word" "lulz", it automatically also comes across as childish and dumb.
But then, that is only my opinion, and we could argue grammar, spelling, and pet peeves like that all day.

You all have to realize that JustSid can't survive as a troll forever. The prospect of being forever alone will eventually crack his psyche.

Aaah, Error, I missed that one. You actually were bashing with delight.
I probably didn't read it because of the desert of letters...

Women love assholes. I wonder how many girls he had to leave back to make it to Bielefeld this year.

women love assholes because they are cracked themselfs. usually, this changes when you grow older...

By everyone I meant all people which believed to OP in this thread. There are some people asking him to show pictures, wishing him best luck and so on, that was my point. After reading this thread, I can't say that "no one" believed OP. And I'm guessing there is no matter "how many is "everyone"" in Russia or any other countries, since we talk English here (at least I try to ).

And guys, I can't say that womens love assholes, at least I don't want to believe that I'm an asshole, cause they love me

I'm glad you don't really mean "everyone," because I never believed in this project.

Also:

Bad logic. Just because women love assholes doesn't mean that they don't love nice people... although that is most likely the case.

"Best luck" does not necessarily indicate a belief that someone will be successful. In fact often it is used when they need a lot of luck because they almost certainly won't be successful. One user offered help. Maybe two seemed to actually believe something might come of this.

Jibb

Maybe it's a good thing then that I tend to write these long posts nobody ever reads!

You need to become more of a concise writer. As Bill Waterson said: "The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, inhibit clarity, and obscure poor reasoning." Therefore, you just need to replace your sentences with complex and archaic words that nobody understands any more, and you'll be fine.

Yeah, hopefully that logic wasn't mine, and I'm happy to hear that I'm one of the nice people, thank you

Yes, you interpret way too much into the bump. And I don't care if you think "for the lulz" is a good reason or not or if you find it childish.

I guess the appropriate phrase would be "cry harder", but you find that childish too, right?

Of course. How could anyone not find that childish?



If you say so. It's still easy enough to get that impression. After all, if you do it "for the lulz", then what are we supposed to laugh at?

And thank you for letting us know your opinion about my opinion about "for the lulz". Duly noted.



I think we've reached the end of the discussion here. I doubt there's much insight to be gained by continuing (neither from me, nor from you).
I suppose at this point, we should just disagree with each other and move on.

Agreed. If you allow me one last sentence: Don't be so damn serious

If no one has any further things to add to the topic, I will move it to the archive in a day. In the meantime, try to save the topic (I won't move it if you start a valuable discussion)

Why not just close it?!

There's no need to move anything. The forum has its simple rule to let a thread change into history - not posting.


This is not childish - it is a no-go!
And, it isn't important whether those who laugh at someone care, but whether others care - and I care.
You can laugh at someone - once, if you need it - but then let him go his ways. Period.

Thats a great idea. Why do you people then post here to tell me that I should let the thread die?



I thought I did this already?

There's a valid argument to be made here that what we've discussed here is valuable, in the sense of showing conflicting viewpoints on how to handle this precise issue.

Due to this, making this thread impossible to read for anyone (who is not a moderator) seems like overkill. Closing it would be an option, but really, there is nothing that stands out to me as reason enough to do so at this point. In other words, just letting this thread die seems a good thing to do.

And just like I was, Pappenheimer is allowed to share his opinion. In fact, given his posting history, I would actively encourage him to post in every topic. : )
As soon as he and others have said what they want to add, this topic will have run its course and die in a way natural for a forum thread.

So just sit back and relax. Or in your words, don't be so damn serious ; )

wow. this thread is *still* going. just.... wow.

You're a moderator. If you have reason to believe it should be closed, close it. I, for one, would not mind at all.

This thread going absurdly and pathetic... And starting from half of it (from page 6 I guess), there are only offtopics! Why don't you just lock it? There is no need to delete it, just don't allow your your ambitions to show up here. Both of you, Error014 and Sid, your arguing looks childish and it's senseless! If you hate each other, there is a great possibility to write each other private messages, and so you'll really keep your relations "private". Go meet somewhere in Germany, and punch health points out of each other or whatever But please, lock this thread, or don't "push" it any further.

so has anybody pushed A7 to its limits yet? no? what about A8?

Nah, but Sid and Error are pushing each other to their limits

Oh, you got me wrong again. I don't want to move it because I find this all too off-topic or because I suddenly grow a heart for the OP, I find this all pretty hilarious here. I wanted to move it because you guys where all like "wääääh, thats sooo evil, how dare you, you should be shot in the knees for this".

As I said before, there are plenty of mods roaming this thread now, so why don't you just lock it? That's what mods are for...

... although now that I think about it, being a mod, couldn't sid unlock this thread after its locked? I guess he would have to be stripped of his mod rights for this to work (not that I think anyone would care. Sid's an entertaining character, but I really think it was a bad idea to make him a mod).

EDIT: I just realized that the "noob brother" (FutureRaptor) has made 67(!) posts. Some of them are very recent...

Also Gorilla123 himself made a few posts about a month after the creation of this thread. It looks like he took my advice to heart and stopped posting until he had something to show... that's rare for a newcomer.

I hadn't offered to move the thread if I would move it right back to Morbius to start it again. Same of course counts for locking too.

not both of them silly. just the left one, and only grazing it both would need a much more serious crime.

Bump.
Haha I am back to the forum and I cannot believe how much this thread got trolled. Anyway me and my team didn't fail, we gave up... It was prob going to work out in the end but it was simply too much work for us with little benefits. To all the people who've been calling us noobs, we have been working with 3dgs since A5 so I am not sure if noobs is the right word for us but certainly is for my brother lol. We are now working on other way less demanding projects but they are not for release yet.

Sure you didn't gave up because you failed?

Haha why would I lie. The project would have taken us years and although we could have made a great game, that would have somewhat pushed the boundaries of A7, college and university is more important at this stage.

So no pushing there. How bout pulling? Pull A8 by it's legs^^

Or grabbing A8 on its balls


Lets make a great game.......uups it causes work.

,gri

Just cause we decided not to develop the game doesn't mean we couldn't have, we simply didn't have the passion and without that the game would have sucked and taken even longer to create.

Hey ... its not a big thing. Most of us failed in the past. It becomes not a deadend in the own life.

Just learned - Dont make big promises...if you'r not able to hold the line.

,
gri

I've gotta love you optimism, shame you didn't hit the realism bar before you started the thread

Stuff like that is FRUSTRATING, isn't it?

We all know that you've could created the most awesome uber game ever with A7.

It was never a question, wasn't it?

Okay. Everyone has at least one project they never complete. I like your optimism in not calling it failure, but I'm curious: What's the difference between failing and giving up? Describe for us a hypothetical series of events that could legitimately be called failure to "push A7 to its limit".

And actually, I'm afraid your project was doomed from the start when you promised an "interesting story". No one is capable of writing an interesting story starring powerboats except the folks at Pixar, and I doubt you or even your talented brother work for Pixar.

Jibb

Make no mistake, failure is absolutely a direct consequence of giving up. I mean think about it, you're either failing or succeeding, and you're certainly not succeeding by giving up.

I just want to make sure that everyone understands that this is NOT my fault here!

Sure!
Confess!
You'll get the comfy chair!

i could write a story bout powerboats on par with cars. problem is cars sucked

Although our game would not have been the best ever made with 3dgs, it certainly would have ranked in the top 100 (top 50 perhaps) made with a7. The game would have had some features that have never been seen in 3dgs games before like icebergs in a 3d water world. Of course that all takes a lot of work and we decided not to go ahead with the project in the end as we did not have enough time at the end of the day left for developing the project. Anyway I am done talking about this project, we are remaking/renaming our studio, we will now have 2 less members working with us, and we will focus on making some good games. NO PROMISES THIS TIME...

Woohoo! I'm not sure if this is something I should look forward to...

I want this so bad. Seriously.

It wouldnt be extremely hard to make but the 3d water would probably cause most of the problems. The icebergs are pretty easy to make and so are the physics. Just the water part is quite difficult and if you want good quality water you will probably have to make your own shader.

I highly recommend you do learn how to write your own shaders. It doesn't take much time at all to be able to do your own tweaks and even simple effects, and then it won't be long after that until you're learning more complex effects.

Many users who don't know how to write shaders avoid trying out of intimidation -- the assumption that shaders are difficult. The thing is, most shaders are short (they need to be fast, right?). They use relatively simple maths (except for some "standard" matrix operations that are the same in almost all shaders). And they are visual.

Jibb

And that´s why I love them!

We already know how to write our own shaders. We have tweaked around with 3dgs for a while.

Me too, Hummel! They're my favourite part of game dev!

Gorilla, good for you. Make some cool stuff.

Jibb

Well, we almost got the icebergs. Now add water and brigthen them up a little...^^
http://www.youtube.com/user/CSiSDevelopmentTeam#p/u/1/3-AGgKZQl4M

Everyone else, come on. Yes, they gave up, yes, they were over- enthusiastic, but at least they brave enough to admit it after they gave up. Not many here have done that, most try to let the thread die.
I think they deserve applause for being honest at the end.

They weren't really being honest when they said they hadn't failed by giving up, but otherwise I agree.