Comparison

This might be a hard question to answer, which engine is the better choice C4 or A6Pro? It seems like C4 have updates almost monthly with new features.

Noob65

Not having even looked at the engine (C4), ask yourself these questions...

1. What is my goal?
2. What features are crucial to achieve that goal?
3. What degree of flexibility do I have?
4. What is my budget?

You should be able to answer those questions without even going online, much less looking at engines. After you have answered those questions, start comparing engines (GSPro and C4 in your case). Other peoples opinions on this matter will do you little good, because they do not directly pertain to what you are trying to do.

Open up both engines feature pages and pick the one that best fulfills those questions.

Regards,
Raddaddy

Thanks,

Well, I already have a good idea what I want, need and how much I want to spend. I'm now trying to get the best bang for my bucks. I'm going to design a multi-player game with very high resolution, knowing that most machines won't be able to play it at this point. Nevertheless by the time my game is ready half the planet should have upgraded their machines. I'm realistic and know it's going to take long hours and lots money to get this done, but the end result should be a very rewarding one.

From what I understand some people on review boards thinks the A6 engine being outdated, is that true? Their speclist pretty much cover every aspect needed for a good game, except the modeling module maybe?

So any input from the Forum is greatly appreciated and I thank you all.

Noob65

Wow! Start something small. Why not create your first game -- something basic like first person shooter?

I know it's ambitious, but I will start with a small working model and then expand it from there. There shouldn't be too many levels, the key is how many players you can squeeze in at the same time. I believe a multi-server system worldwide just like 'AmericasArmy' would be very useful.

Noob65

What's your budget? 10-million, 10-thousand, 10-bucks?

Not to turn you off, but if you are thinking about making a traditional next-gen MMO type game, your going to need a multi-million dollar budget. The first America's Army game had a reported budget of "about 7-million".

If you are really creative, you can make something super-cool for 10 bucks (which would buy you a case of Jolt cola ). But it isn't going to be Warcraft or Counter-Strike.

Well Doug, thanks for your input.
At this point I haven't allocated any dollars to this. I would say I would spend what it takes to get it done if I know it's possible. I know 'AA' have the full backing of the Army and a ton of people involved all over the world. Since I'm a total novice on this arena I'm not going to spend $350,000 on an engine and later find out the project is to complicated at this point. In other words I'm looking for a cheap way to test the idea and then move on with bigger money, maybe get financing if it's commercially viable.

Doug, you are with Conitec, right? So you know the weakness and strenght about you product. Would you say it's good enough to make a working model of a multi-player on-line game? With the weight on high resolution graphics?

Noob65

Hiya.

C4 requires a very solid understanding of C++. If you have that, then C4 might be the way to go as it lets you write what you need it to do. The tools for C4 are still new (as is the engine itself), but you get full source to the engine and the included tools. It can also be compiled to run on Mac computers.

Eric (the creator of C4) is a *great* guy, and uber-smart. You can't go wrong with a guy like that at the head. Also, with C4, if you add more to the team later, you only have to buy licenses for the programmers...all your artists can use the tools to import/create the assets for free. So, if your team consists of 6 guys, 2 of which are programmers, you only need to buy 2 licenses...not 6.

C4 is also "cutting edge" compared to A6. The potential for C4 is a LOT more, IMHSHO, than it is for A6. Maybe when A7 gets out it will be different, but compared to A6, C4 is leaps and bounds ahead in capability when a serious team and decent programmers/artists are behind them.

Thanks Paul,

There was a lot of meat in your response and it's greatly appreciated. This is the kind of information that makes decision making easier. does anyone know when A7 comes out or even if their engine will be upgraded to C4 standard?

Maybe someone from Conitec would be so nice and response to this question.

Noob65

Hiya.

Re: A7...keep dreaming. We've been chomping at the bit for *any* info on A7 for about, oh, a year now...we have heard basically nothing other than "We're working on it, it will have better tools, and a choice of BSP or Octree". That's about it. *sigh* A lot of folks that have been with 3D Game Studio have jumped ship already, moving on to other engines...oh, they still post here, and still keep an eye on 3DGS. But, when you need feature X, Y and Z, and 3DGS only has features A, B, and C...well, you use the engine that will do the trick.

A lot of people here use different engines (I use A6, C4 and Torque...and am playing around with Beyond Virtual). So far, with the latest version (128) of C4, I'm really liking it! I bought C4 back when it was somewhere around 105, and priced at $100 with lifetime updates. I am *totally* behind C4...even at the current price of $200 and non-life updates, it's easily worth the cost. I'd still buy it in a heartbeat.

Again thanks for your meaty response and useful info. Would you say C4 is too hard for a novice to start with not knowing C++ at all? Does C4 have similar features and tools like A6 or do you need to add some 3rd parties to get a complete package?

Thanks,

Noob65

Paul, I went over and checked out the "Beyond Virtual" engine it's almost like A6 with features but more up to date and cutting edge. I liked the fact it's script based and not C++ and also accept most formats of 3D imports without any need to use a import tool to convert. You said you just started to fiddle around with it, is it easy to work with?

For what I've gathered from the C4 and Beyond Virtual sites it seems like the features and performance are about equal. Only difference I can see right now is the C++ vs. C-script. And the prices are very competitive.

Would appreciate some feedback from you,

Noob65

Hiya

C4: For a total neophyte at C++, it might be a bit much at the start. That said, however, from what I gather the code is "well organised, logical and easy to understand". So, if you were to jump into the deep end and learn C++ 'as you go', I would give C4 a shot. At least with it you won't be trying to figure out C++ *and* trying to figure out what the heck the creator of the program was trying to do.

BV: I've only just scratched the surface with it. Theoretically, it is easy to use. From my first impressions, it looks fairly well organised from an artists standpoint (my forte). Importing is pretty easy, the world editor is a bit 'odd' if you ask me...gonna take some getting used to (strange placement of some tools, and a couple of naming conventions I'd have to get used to). However, I haven't used it with Windows XP 64-bit...so I guess I'll have to see. (I just switched to XP-64 from my old Windows 2000 Pro).

There is another 3d engine that I'm keeping my eye on...haven't really used it though...called "Truevision3D" ( http://www.truevision3d.com/home.php ) The pricing is Free, $150, or $500. I've heard some good things about it.

Another program, more specifically geared towards MMORPG's is the "Nebula Device" ( http://www.radonlabs.de/nebula.html ) ...but you will definitly need to learn C++ with this one too. I tried their 'Project Nomads' game...I was quite impressed with their environment rendering. Nice stuff!

Lastly, you could take a gander at "Neverax Engine" (NeL... http://www.nevrax.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=HomePage )It is another one that is focused towards MMORPG's...but it is also GNU licenced! (re: free)

Oh, and if "money is no object", the "Quest3D" engine looks fantabulous! ( http://www.quest3d.com/index.php?id=15 ) Check out the example demos!

Paul, thanks a million. You are a fountain of information, I'll spend my day checking out the links. If you don't mind I might have some other questions for you.

Best,

Noob65