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Re: What are we really?
[Re: zazang]
#134987
06/10/07 06:12
06/10/07 06:12
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,987
Frankfurt
jcl
Chief Engineer
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Chief Engineer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,987
Frankfurt
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You do not necessarily need to believe in a "soul". However there is no doubt that we consist of something else besides matter and energy. This something else is consciousness.
A complex enough arrangement of matter, like our brain, produces consciousness. This is nothing supernatural, it's just a property of matter. Animals can be conscious also, though on a lower level. Most AI scientists think that even machines can gain consciousness when they are complex enough.
This has nothing to do with the meaning of your life. Either you gave your life a meaning, or you didn't. Obviously, you can be conscious but still have a meaningless life. Then you might need a replacement, like a god, a guru, an ideology etc. that serves not as a meaning, but at least as a purpose for your life.
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: jcl]
#134988
06/10/07 06:59
06/10/07 06:59
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
adoado
User
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User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
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This is just a thought I had: Ever wonder why things work so perfectly...like how something can be described 100% accurately by one mathematical formula. How trees convert light into energy - plants turn carbon dioxide into oxygen, and then we breathe that oxygen. How things work so perfectly and seamlessly, from every atom to huge stars.. Maybe, just maybe....everything is controlled by some infinite force (maybe something like a computer) that is beyond our control. In a way like the matrix but different. We could simply be entities that have a certain span of free will (like AI entities in PC games) and the universe is controlled by a force outside our control - and we are merely beings in it. Maybe we are simply a "test" or a "game" for another force or entity too powerful and absolutely out of reach of us. It just seems everything works perfectly and brilliantly, but how? So I just thought (not my 100% belief) that we are simply beings in an artificial world for others to watch out evolution, change, actions, and that this world, this universe is controlled by something far greater. I do not base my life on this idea - nor is it flawless, just a thought I had when thinking about....things  And if this were true - our life would have.....for some....little purpose. Thanks, Adoado
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Joozey]
#134991
06/10/07 09:43
06/10/07 09:43
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 873
Shadow969
User
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User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 873
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Quote:
There are two different particles in space as far as I'm aware: matter and energy. A spirit would theoretically only consist of energy. But something needs to hold the energy together and normally this would be the job of the matter. Since a spirit does not consist out of matter there isn't a way to keep the energy in one place, thus a spirit can't exist.
that's because you try to treat soul - nobody know exactly what it is - like a usual physical object, and there's nothing surpising that it cannot be explained with currently known laws of physics.
Quote:
- Lets start off with a major factor in my statements opinions. I - AM - EVIL. If there are souls, I don't have one. I eat the forbiden fruit and I drink from the glass of hatred.
 Why do you think you're evil? cause you do forbidden stuff? lets look at the simplest example - you help someone on the forum for free, the person you've helped is happy, you made him happy And you can think anything you want - you've done it to gain respect, or to express yourself, or stuff, that doesn't change the whole thing
Quote:
- Next, What do you have to keep living with your "soul". Eternal life in "heaven" after death? lol...
for me soul is the strange thing that's inside a living creature(not only human), so if there's no soul in you - you're dead 
Quote:
Ever wonder why things work so perfectly...like how something can be described 100% accurately by one mathematical formula. How trees convert light into energy - animals turn carbon dioxide into oxygen, and then we breathe that oxygen. How things work so perfectly and seamlessly, from every atom to huge stars..
that can be explained rather easy - the species that haven't fitted that formulas died. So now we can see "perfection"
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Michael_Schwarz]
#134993
06/10/07 11:23
06/10/07 11:23
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
ExtraCortex
OP
Member
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OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
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If we are only a body, so what causes our born?
If a baby comes to life, why dont you born in baby?
What decides if that baby is you or not? What decides that you dont born in 2 different bodies at the same time? One thing we can conclude with this, we are SINGULAR, you cant be in 2 bodies at the same time.
Another thing that makes think, is what changed in 1989 so that i gain a body and born? With didnt i born before or after 1989??
Because before you borning, you need to have something that decides when you born or not, so you must exist before borning for that someone or something can decide when you born.
Because you cant decide the destiny of something that doesnt exist!! So before you born you must exist so that something else can say "you'll born there!".
I dont believe in the sould like religions and some other way to see things or a passage to another world.
I see the soul like an empty brain, i mean, i think souls are like plants, they dont have feelings, they only exist, without knowing, and waiting for something to happen, to all eternity, in a world without need to time and space, in a "rest in peace" world where you dont need to care about nothing, even dont even care about caring for something.. an empty being... waiting for a body to give him feelings and objectives.
Last edited by ExtraCortex; 06/10/07 11:23.
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: ExtraCortex]
#134994
06/10/07 11:48
06/10/07 11:48
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,439
Red Dwarf
Michael_Schwarz
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,439
Red Dwarf
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Quote:
If we are only a body, so what causes our born?
If a baby comes to life, why dont you born in baby?
What decides if that baby is you or not? What decides that you dont born in 2 different bodies at the same time? One thing we can conclude with this, we are SINGULAR, you cant be in 2 bodies at the same time.
Another thing that makes think, is what changed in 1989 so that i gain a body and born? With didnt i born before or after 1989??
Because before you borning, you need to have something that decides when you born or not, so you must exist before borning for that someone or something can decide when you born.
Because you cant decide the destiny of something that doesnt exist!! So before you born you must exist so that something else can say "you'll born there!".
I dont believe in the sould like religions and some other way to see things or a passage to another world.
I see the soul like an empty brain, i mean, i think souls are like plants, they dont have feelings, they only exist, without knowing, and waiting for something to happen, to all eternity, in a world without need to time and space, in a "rest in peace" world where you dont need to care about nothing, even dont even care about caring for something.. an empty being... waiting for a body to give him feelings and objectives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilisation
....
"Sometimes JCL reminds me of Notch, but more competent" ~ Kiyaku
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Shadow969]
#134995
06/10/07 11:54
06/10/07 11:54
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
adoado
User
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User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
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that can be explained rather easy - the species that haven't fitted that formulas died. So now we can see "perfection"
Exactly. That in itself works - is perfect
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Michael_Schwarz]
#134996
06/10/07 13:33
06/10/07 13:33
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
ExtraCortex
OP
Member
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OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
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Quote:
Quote:
If we are only a body, so what causes our born?
If a baby comes to life, why dont you born in baby?
What decides if that baby is you or not? What decides that you dont born in 2 different bodies at the same time? One thing we can conclude with this, we are SINGULAR, you cant be in 2 bodies at the same time.
Another thing that makes think, is what changed in 1989 so that i gain a body and born? With didnt i born before or after 1989??
Because before you borning, you need to have something that decides when you born or not, so you must exist before borning for that someone or something can decide when you born.
Because you cant decide the destiny of something that doesnt exist!! So before you born you must exist so that something else can say "you'll born there!".
I dont believe in the sould like religions and some other way to see things or a passage to another world.
I see the soul like an empty brain, i mean, i think souls are like plants, they dont have feelings, they only exist, without knowing, and waiting for something to happen, to all eternity, in a world without need to time and space, in a "rest in peace" world where you dont need to care about nothing, even dont even care about caring for something.. an empty being... waiting for a body to give him feelings and objectives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilisation
....
You didnt get it...
Why did you borned in your body, in this time and space?
With didnt you born in something else?
What decides the kind of life will going to have?
What some people are rich and others are poor? wtf decides those things?
Then, for your future life to be decided you must exist before you really born, so something decide where will you born.
I think that's the proove of an existing soul.
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