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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Ran Man]
#135007
06/11/07 04:29
06/11/07 04:29
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,815
Finland
Inestical
Rabbit Developer
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Rabbit Developer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,815
Finland
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Now we start to examine and study this live?
I can hear you babbling:
[Phrase 1.]
"Ooh... chemicals.. they're mixing up... The spirit is within..."
"Omg.. there is no chemicals mixing up.. The spirit is gone.. Argh! I wasn't able to make enough notes.. Bring me a new participiant!"
[Goto Phrase 1.]
"Yesterday was once today's tomorrow."
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Inestical]
#135008
06/11/07 08:01
06/11/07 08:01
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
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I always thought the subconscious is the soul, always with you, the quite voice of common sense, the measure to draw one back from making rash decisions or acts...
Hubris is a wonderfull thing when we can laugh at it but assuming that 'one knows it all' now-time is nothing short of the patently pointed ridiculous.
We dont know what the universe is comprised of or where it is because we have only just begun to ask questions and wake up to the fact that there is more to the world than we are currently capable of understanding.
So we joke about it all.
Souls are in every race mythology as are spirits and so on, the concept is frighteningly consistant and implicit, enough so as to raise these types of questions.
The God thing isnt though..which I guess, speaks for itself (sure, insist that anothers races view is merely a misunderstanding of one cultures hubris in assuming that their interpretation is the only one or better yet, quote unfathomable sources to justify a so called scientific view but keep in mind, any scientific view quoted wont be the actual words or text used by the scientists themselves, they are all well aware of the massive shortcomings of their measuring system.
Many of us have memories as children of events that could not possibly have occured in their present lifetime, many have 'experiences' that are totally unexplainable and yet many more know deep inside of themselves that accountability at some point will occur, where do we get these from I wonder.
At tis time the question of a controlling consciousness n an individual level as expressed here is currently beingexamined by ventures in virtual reality, we are creating a universe peopled by characters with their ownlives in which we can take control of, doesnt that sound familiar?.
What would another 10 years give us? Maybe not an answer to this question but certainly a better appreciation of the question itself.
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Nems]
#135009
06/11/07 11:06
06/11/07 11:06
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
The actual death comes, when your brain stops mixing its chemicals. That would be BRAIN-DEAD. That comes several minutes after your lungs and heart stop.
My theory goes that the brain is only mixing chemicals, because you're eternal spirit <that is in us all> is actually sending signals to mix those chemicals.
Once that spirit is gone, then the chemicals stop and they declare you dead. lol
It has nothing to do with a spirit making sure chemicals are being released and mixed, that happens through signals. You might wonder where these signals come from, well apparently it's a system that runs on O2 and a lot of different kind of sensors give input to our brains. Well, the brain simply hás to react to those inputs and signals and more or less "requests" for 'chemicals' to be released. It's heavily based upon reaction I guess. Still, we can't quite locate and extract the exact 'thoughts' from brains yet, but we know a lot about it and when what is active.
By the way, as for dying, as long as there's O2 in the brains it'll keep on being "active" for a while. Usually for about 4 minutes. Getting decapitated will be a nasty death since you'll be able to think for another 2 minutes or so before enough stopped functioning to be able to stop 'knowing'.
Quote:
You know, after your heart has stopped pumping blood, and your brain dies, therefor it cant do anything...
True, however the remaining blood in the brain has still some O2 in it, after that's been used in the brain, the brain will stop functioning completely.
Quote:
I don't think so. Believing that all your emotions, thoughts, ideas and stuff are produced by your brain is like believing that car is controlled by the engine, or PC is controlled by CPU...of course engine and CPU are most important parts of car and PC, but there's a human that takes a REAL control...
It's an illusion called 'consciousness', basically it's still your brain producing your thoughts, storing your memory and so on. Your brain is not a CPU, it's more like a complete computer and it really controls the rest of your body. Most motoric functions are 100% unconsciously controlled. (That's pure awesomeness by the way, since I've recently gotten into doing some hypnosis onto people and make them do funny things hahahha  )
Quote:
So in my opinion our brain is like an "engine", and soul is like a "human", controlling our body.
I don't think the 'engine' of a car is a good comparison, especially since it already presumes being controlled,
Quote:
Many of us have memories as children of events that could not possibly have occured in their present lifetime, many have 'experiences' that are totally unexplainable and yet many more know deep inside of themselves that accountability at some point will occur, where do we get these from I wonder.
There is a huge difference between what people think having experienced and what really has happened. Sometimes people will vaguely remember thing they actually saw on television when they were a little child for example and at a later age thinking they themselves have experiences those events.
The source of thoughts, ideas or emotions is by far not always our own experience, actually, it's mostly nót from our own experience.
I think we shouldn't underestimate the influence of having dreams either, some dreams feel so real that a couple of years later you might have mixed up some things thinking you have actually experienced it.
Cheers
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: Ran Man]
#135010
06/11/07 11:16
06/11/07 11:16
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
ExtraCortex
OP
Member
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OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
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Quote:
No, your heart has nothing to do with your death.
You're heart can stop pumping and you'll still be alive.
That's why CPR is what it is.
The actual death comes, when your brain stops mixing its chemicals. That would be BRAIN-DEAD. That comes several minutes after your lungs and heart stop.
My theory goes that the brain is only mixing chemicals, because you're eternal spirit <that is in us all> is actually sending signals to mix those chemicals.
Once that spirit is gone, then the chemicals stop and they declare you dead. lol 
Oh, life is so fun, ain't it? 
I know a guy that his mother wasa dead for almost 1 day (BRAIN-DEAD status) and she came back to life...
No brain damage no nothing. She talks about a freedom sensation, and time goes faster, but no lights and no tunnels.
I think the brain dies/stops before the soul goes away.
Another thing that i want to make clear here, is that our soul is equal to animal's soul, even germs' soul is like ours, bacause it makes no sense talking about human spirit, dog spirit, while we are all a bunch of materia with identical herarquy structure, that the only thing that makes us different from the animals is the way we evolved.
Having a super brain doesnt make us "special", if we are special for having a brain than the birds are special too for having wings, and soo on..
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#135011
06/11/07 11:19
06/11/07 11:19
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
ExtraCortex
OP
Member
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OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
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Quote:
Quote:
The actual death comes, when your brain stops mixing its chemicals. That would be BRAIN-DEAD. That comes several minutes after your lungs and heart stop.
My theory goes that the brain is only mixing chemicals, because you're eternal spirit <that is in us all> is actually sending signals to mix those chemicals.
Once that spirit is gone, then the chemicals stop and they declare you dead. lol
It has nothing to do with a spirit making sure chemicals are being released and mixed, that happens through signals. You might wonder where these signals come from, well apparently it's a system that runs on O2 and a lot of different kind of sensors give input to our brains. Well, the brain simply hás to react to those inputs and signals and more or less "requests" for 'chemicals' to be released. It's heavily based upon reaction I guess. Still, we can't quite locate and extract the exact 'thoughts' from brains yet, but we know a lot about it and when what is active.
By the way, as for dying, as long as there's O2 in the brains it'll keep on being "active" for a while. Usually for about 4 minutes. Getting decapitated will be a nasty death since you'll be able to think for another 2 minutes or so before enough stopped functioning to be able to stop 'knowing'.
Quote:
I don't think so. Believing that all your emotions, thoughts, ideas and stuff are produced by your brain is like believing that car is controlled by the engine, or PC is controlled by CPU...of course engine and CPU are most important parts of car and PC, but there's a human that takes a REAL control...
It's an illusion called 'consciousness', basically it's still your brain producing your thoughts, storing your memory and so on. Your brain is not a CPU, it's more like a complete computer and it really controls the rest of your body. Most motoric functions are 100% unconsciously controlled. (That's pure awesomeness by the way, since I've recently gotten into doing some hypnosis onto people and make them do funny things hahahha )
Quote:
So in my opinion our brain is like an "engine", and soul is like a "human", controlling our body.
I don't think the 'engine' of a car is a good comparison, especially since it already presumes being controlled,
Cheers
You know how to do hipnosys?
I once made that with my bro while he was sleeping.
Very funny, but a bit dangerous.
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: ExtraCortex]
#135012
06/11/07 11:39
06/11/07 11:39
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
You know how to do hipnosys?
I once made that with my bro while he was sleeping.
Very funny, but a bit dangerous.
Yes, I've got a few books and know some people who do stage hypnosis acts. Pretty cool. There's definitely a certain responsibility you have, if you mess up really bad, people can become insane. Basically you have to look at it like this, our brain has this sort of 'self control system' ("consciousness", although according to current psychology standards there's no difference between the consciousness and the unconsciousness since it's interlinked so much) which keeps us from doing uncontrolled unwanted unconscious things, it makes sure that we do what we want and not what we are told to by others. You can easily by-pass this defense system though with a whole bunch of psychological tricks. It's simply because thát's the way the brain works.
A little example. Ever been on a very high tower where you can see the bottom below you several hundred meters below? Well, most if not all people will get this feeling 'ow I'm falling down' or at least the body will try to find balance, eventhough there's no need to find your balance.
Same experience but explained differently; let's put a thick and reasonably wide wooden plank on the floor and walk over it. No problems at all, right? You can even jump around if you like.
Okey, well, now put this wooden plank as a bridge between two high buildings and make sure it's rock-solid in place. It's still the same plank, it's still the same distance and requires the same kind of action, only difference is the brain will now react to the possibility of extreme danger and will try to make you nót walk over that wooden plank. That's the controlling 'mind' pulling some of your strings. That's why it usually takes a lot of confidence to be able to do such things without starting to have balancing issues or without sweating.
Stage hypnosis uses those and similar kind of reactions to trick the mind and take control over the more unconscious part of the mind, you basically try to 'catch the control system off guard', after that you can give a powerful suggestion and it's likely that will happen (the person has then been hypnotized),
Cheers
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#135014
06/11/07 12:48
06/11/07 12:48
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
ExtraCortex
OP
Member
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OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 179
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Quote:
Quote:
You know how to do hipnosys?
I once made that with my bro while he was sleeping.
Very funny, but a bit dangerous.
Yes, I've got a few books and know some people who do stage hypnosis acts. Pretty cool. There's definitely a certain responsibility you have, if you mess up really bad, people can become insane. Basically you have to look at it like this, our brain has this sort of 'self control system' ("consciousness", although according to current psychology standards there's no difference between the consciousness and the unconsciousness since it's interlinked so much) which keeps us from doing uncontrolled unwanted unconscious things, it makes sure that we do what we want and not what we are told to by others. You can easily by-pass this defense system though with a whole bunch of psychological tricks. It's simply because thát's the way the brain works.
A little example. Ever been on a very high tower where you can see the bottom below you several hundred meters below? Well, most if not all people will get this feeling 'ow I'm falling down' or at least the body will try to find balance, eventhough there's no need to find your balance.
Same experience but explained differently; let's put a thick and reasonably wide wooden plank on the floor and walk over it. No problems at all, right? You can even jump around if you like.
Okey, well, now put this wooden plank as a bridge between two high buildings and make sure it's rock-solid in place. It's still the same plank, it's still the same distance and requires the same kind of action, only difference is the brain will now react to the possibility of extreme danger and will try to make you nót walk over that wooden plank. That's the controlling 'mind' pulling some of your strings. That's why it usually takes a lot of confidence to be able to do such things without starting to have balancing issues or without sweating.
Stage hypnosis uses those and similar kind of reactions to trick the mind and take control over the more unconscious part of the mind, you basically try to 'catch the control system off guard', after that you can give a powerful suggestion and it's likely that will happen (the person has then been hypnotized),
Cheers
Its really amazing how our brain is limited lol
In fact, knowing lots of psicology can makes us go further in our life and sociaty level by "manipulating" others trough speech.
Some years ago i found out that every single action we make is a result of an unconscious sexual impulse.
Then i started to search about this and i found out things like Ego, Super-Ego and Id (portuguese definitons for conscience, unconscience and social awareness).
The way i discovered this, it wss trought girls, if you look closely, everything they do is in someway related to their self image in their social group. Its all a crazy game about seduction, because unconsciously you know how to act in order to impress a girl, and when you're not with a girl, you know how to act in your group of friends to be accepted by your society, to raise your social level, so that you can impress/seduct them after all..
This may not make sense, because its all made almost unconsciously.
This year i got 3 girlfriends and the more i have the more i understand them.
One fact is that, the more girls your can have, more respect you'll have among your social group, and that respect will bring even more girls.
But behind this "gigolo" there's the 'real' me, just a "nerd" that likes to know everything, and likes computers, math and soo on..
Other ways to use this is to attract people's attention to you, that's very useful when you want to have success in your career for example.
This area of psychology also has a marketing face, for example, when you turn on you TV you see TV-Shows, or publicity, some of them are "cool" and attract your attention, others dont, the guys that make this kind of publicity study very well what attracts people's attention.
Now in my country there's one publicity that makes everyone look at it, i say, everyone again, that publicity is only a black screen, nothing is happening is like the TV turned off, and a voice saying, "nothing is going to happen here, go away" and something like that. That "repulsive" threatment makes people not wanting, but, desiring to see what's going to happen.
And in fact, its a cheap publicity, that consists only in a black screen.. cheap, but powerfull.
Last edited by ExtraCortex; 06/11/07 12:55.
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#135015
06/11/07 16:11
06/11/07 16:11
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Matt_Aufderheide
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
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Quote:
Yes, I've got a few books and know some people who do stage hypnosis acts. Pretty cool. There's definitely a certain responsibility you have, if you mess up really bad, people can become insane
Nonsense.. you can only hypnotize people who want to be..and you cant make someone crazy or order them to do evil things.. that's only in movies..
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Re: What are we really?
[Re: ExtraCortex]
#135016
06/11/07 18:28
06/11/07 18:28
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
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@ Phemox I agree, but only disagree on the source of the signals. Your eternal spirit is stimulating them I think. Your spirit is YOU or your personality and consciousness. Quote:
I know a guy that his mother wasa dead for almost 1 day (BRAIN-DEAD status) and she came back to life...
Sure, yes I believe it.
But, what happens if your spirit/soul returns back into your body again? Then, everything starts functioning again. Haha.
I recently read a news article, where a person was declared dead, and then later was at the morgue for embalment treatment and was groaning of his injuries there laying ona table. The mortician there was sooo surprised! wow.
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