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some questions on A7 Pro capabilities #175015
12/28/07 04:33
12/28/07 04:33
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 69
Kasey_Dee Offline OP
Junior Member
Kasey_Dee  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 69
Hello

I am looking into A7 and have some questions. I am asking these questions for the A7 Professional version.

1. How long are the build times for a small level? I know this is relative question and depends on many factors. If I could get a rough idea that would help.

2. I have 3D Studio Max 9. Can you make your levels using model geometry and have the lighting and shaders work? I never liked making levels out of level geometry or brushes.

3. What is your limit as to how many shaders per model or per level?

4. What is the dynamic light limit? What is the static light limit?

5. How many textures per model if you are using 3D Studio Max 9?

6. Does A7 support soft shadows?

7. Does level geometry behave differently from model geometry? What I mean is how lighting affects it. I was looking into C4 engine and they reacted the same but may not be here.

8. If you have the capabilities to programme can this engine handle writing a quest editor and weather system with lighting that changes throughout the day? Item drop and placement within the game world? Inventory? We are trying to create a game like Morrowind meets Knights of the Old Republic and Deus Ex. I am not referring to massive game but gameplay capabilities here.

9. I have the redist license for Face Gen. http://www.facegen.com/ Can A7 Professional support morph targets?

10. Is seamless level loading possible?

11. I see C lite and C script. How often does this engine go through a major scripting change? That would be difficult to have to rewrite your code to keep up with the changes.

Last edited by Kasey_Dee; 12/28/07 04:41.
Re: some questions on A7 Pro capabilities [Re: Kasey_Dee] #175016
12/28/07 04:51
12/28/07 04:51
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
A
adoado Offline

User
adoado  Offline

User
A

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 503
Australia
Hello ^^

Quote:


1. How long are the build times for a small level? I know this is relative question and depends on many factors. If I could get a rough idea that would help.





Well, if you include blocks in your level it, is similar to A6 as far as I know. With blocks, it can be quite slow, but like you said it depends on many factors. You will get very nice static lighting on the blocks, though. And in the forecast there is a Radiosity feature being implemented ^^. If you don't use blocks and only models and terrains, compiling into a level is done very quickly, almost instant.

Quote:


4. What is the dynamic light limit? What is the static light limit?





A7 has 'unlimited' dynamic lights, although it is only a workaround the real hardware limitation of usually 8 or so. Quote from the manual:

".. the 8 lights hardware limit of today's video cards, light sources are dynamically switched on and off during rendering while taking care that no more than 8 lights are active at any time."

I don't think static lights have a limit, but they increase build time.

Quote:


2. I have 3D Studio Max 9. Can you make your levels using model geometry and have the lighting and shaders work? I never liked making levels out of level geometry or brushes.





I am not exactly sure... you can make models in 3ds max and export them. If you want the materials from 3ds max to still be on your model you must bake them using the Render to Texture feature in max, the materials cannot be used with MED directly.

Quote:


Does A7 support soft shadows?





This question has gone around a lot lately ^^ but I am not sure But as far as I know there are many versions of it under construction, so I think it will only be a matter of time..

Quote:


Does level geometry behave differently from model geometry? What I mean is how lighting affects it. I was looking into C4 engine and they reacted the same but may not be here.





Blocks, or level geometry have their lighting pre calculated (this is done during level compiling). Models do not, and are only lit via dynamic lighting or baked lightmaps. (as far as I know )

Quote:


If you have the capabilities to programme can this engine handle writing a quest editor and weather system with lighting that changes throughout the day? Item drop and placement within the game world? Inventory? We are trying to create a game like Morrowind meets Knights of the Old Republic and Deus Ex. I am not referring to massive game but gameplay capabilities here.





Yes The programming language, especially Lite-C, would allow all of these possibilities. For the quest editor, you would need to write this yourself still but it should be possible

Quote:


I have the redist license for Face Gen. http://www.facegen.com/ Can A7 Professional support morph targets?





As in visually morphing from one mesh to another? I don't think so, but you could get around this. You could place bones in the model to animate the model in realtime, and this would allow arbitrary/combined animations. Or, maybe, you could use a vertex shader to manipulate vertices but I am not sure on this one...

Quote:


Is seamless level loading possible?





With the right code, it should be

Hope it helps a little, ^^
Adoado


Visit our development blog: http://yellloh.com
A7 Pro performance [Re: adoado] #175017
12/28/07 17:40
12/28/07 17:40
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 69
Kasey_Dee Offline OP
Junior Member
Kasey_Dee  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 69
I have been looking at the showcase forums and noticed this http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/804067/an/0/page/0#Post804067

Quote:

I have a whole list of things which I'd like to implement - dunno if it's possible to put such an amount of objects (about 52) into this scene and keep the FPS at a good rate at the same time




It is not uncommon for role playing games to have quite a few models in them and the player may even bring more in with the item drop and placement. 52 objects is not a whole lot really.

Many players want shaders in their games.

Can A7 really handle shader levels if I use all model geometry and not kill the frame rate?

For a general idea if one wanted to take a commercial game off the shelf and recreate a few levels from it in A7 Professional and have it resemble it as close as possible with quantity of models and level size and textures and shaders. What game would it be able to resemble and have a good frame rate? I am trying to get an idea of A7 Professional performance.

Last edited by Kasey_Dee; 12/28/07 17:50.
Re: A7 Pro performance [Re: Kasey_Dee] #175018
12/28/07 18:10
12/28/07 18:10
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline
Expert
Slin  Offline
Expert

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Quote:

I have been looking at the showcase forums and noticed this http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/804067/an/0/page/0#Post804067

Quote:

I have a whole list of things which I'd like to implement - dunno if it's possible to put such an amount of objects (about 52) into this scene and keep the FPS at a good rate at the same time




It is not uncommon for role playing games to have quite a few models in them and the player may even bring more in with the item drop and placement. 52 objects is not a whole lot really.





I am actually very happy with the performence of that level and as long as we don´t start make the room much bigger and include much more models (like 2000) we aren´t going to have problems.

Shaders per model isn´t a problem but I didn´t figure out yet how to use shader using more than 2 textures per diffusetexture-_-

How do you mean this:
Quote:


3. What is your limit as to how many shaders per model or per level?




You can use as many shader in your level as you want. And if you know how to program shaders, you can combine several on one model through blending several passes.

Softshadows are possible but not yet really implemented into 3DGS by conitec. But if you have some knowledge you can create them yourself (some shaders and a bit lite-c code)...


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