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Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype #268582
05/30/09 04:06
05/30/09 04:06
7 Images
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
J
Jaeger Offline OP
Member
Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype

Hi, guys...

I've been working on a basic prototype for a WWII simulation, and just wanted to share some pics of how it's looking now. Keep in mind, none of this artwork is finished, no shaders are applied, and the effects are not really tweaked to their full potential. What you're seeing is just the framework or "skeleton" of what I hope this turns in to.

Criticism and suggestions completely welcomed! I've made my every effort to keep this realistic and in line with real world/historical data. The tank is the famed Panzer IV F2, of course, which was a rugged workhorse for the Wehrmacht during the Second World War. It was an absolutely amazing piece of machinery, just like nearly everything Germans build! laugh

So what can you expect to see in the future? Well, definitely more tanks, and a lot of infantry. When I'm completely finished with coding this tank and everything it needs to do, I plan on adding the British Crusader Mk.II into the mix, and making this into a "seek n' destroy" demo where you can play with either tank and fight the enemy tank (which will use some basic AI). However, the ultimate dream of my team and I is to expand this into a very large simulation which will be playable online. We have a lot of ideas, but I'm not going to spoil the surprises! laugh

I hope you enjoyed seeing these screenshots!

*Special thanks to EvilSOB for all of his help and advice!*

P.S.- Please don't be silly and mistake this as some "political statement". Nothing could be further from the truth. My team and I are passionate about military history and weapons, not 1930's and 40's politics. Our goal is to create a fun, realistic WWII simulation that everyone can enjoy and learn from. There will be *no*, and I repeat, *no* swastikas/Hakenkreuze in this game, and absolutely NO "Nazi-related" content. We want you to have fun, and learn about the experiences, weapons, and battles of both sides, in a totally apolitical atmosphere. This should go without saying, but I figured better safe than sorry...
Last edited by Jaeger; 05/30/09 04:10.
8 Comments
Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Jaeger] #268587
05/30/09 04:32
05/30/09 04:32
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
J
Jaeger Offline OP
Member
Jaeger  Offline OP
Member
J

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
Additional information:

* The simulation will cover the conflicts of the North African theatre of WWII, a very interesting time and battlefield which is often overlooked, and has remained virtually untouched by game developers.

* The sim will include tanks, AFVs (armored fighting vehicles), trucks/haulers, artillery, AA & AAA (anti-aircraft guns), infantry, and we hope, eventually, aircraft and even ships.

* The terrain featured in the pics is only 10x10km in size, and is a "testing arena" that I've been using for a lot of my work. The terrain you can expect to see in a real game will be extremely large. How large? Just wait and see! But I promise, *very* big! laugh

* The tank, it's bullets, and everything is scaled exactly to the real life dimensions, and every physics object has the same mass as it's real life counterpart. The bullets are also fired at the exact, same velocity as the real ones!

* The gunsight visible in the pictures is almost a perfect reproduction of the real PzIV's gunsight. It still does, however, need some additional work done to it, both in coding and aesthetics. It's not quite as pretty as I want it, and I'm waiting for some historical data from a museum and some books to finish coding it.

Panzer IV facts:

Specifications (Pz IV Ausf H, 1943[1])
Weight 25.0 tonnes (27.6 short tons)
Length 7.02 m (23.0 ft)
Width 2.88 m (9.4 ft)
Height 2.68 m (8.8 ft)
Crew 5 (commander, gunner, loader, driver, rad. op./bow machine-gunner)
Armor 10–80 mm (0.39–3.1 in)
Primary
armament 7.5 cm (2.95 in) KwK 40 L/48 main gun (87 rds.)
Secondary
armament 2-3 × 7.92-mm Maschinengewehr 34
Engine 12-cylinder Maybach HL 120 TRM
300 PS (296 hp, 220 kW)
Power/weight 12 PS/t
Transmission 6 fwd., 1 rev. speeds
Suspension Leaf spring
Fuel capacity 470 l (120 US gal)
Operational
range 200 km (120 mi)
Speed 42 km/h (26 mph) road, 16 km/h (9.9 mph) off road
(from Wikipedia)

* The Panzer IV was capable of destroying nearly all of it's opponents at ranges up to 2km away!

* It was very well armored, and Allied tank's usually were forced to shoot it in the sides or rear at close range to destroy it.

* It's 75mm main gun was most often loaded with different types of AP (armor piercing) or HE (high explosive) rounds. In case you're wondering, the "75mm" comes from the diameter of the bullet, not it's length. That's how bullets are measured and designated a "caliber".

* It was usually armed with 2 machine guns. One was located inside the turret, while the other was located in the front of the tank's hull. The turret's MG could traverse 360degrees, just like the turret, and aimed everywhere the main gun did. The hull mounted gun could only traverse slightly, and was permanently fixed into the front of the tank. Each machine gun fired the 7.92x57mm Mauser cartridge.

Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Jaeger] #268592
05/30/09 05:10
05/30/09 05:10
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,838
take me down to the paradise c...
Cowabanga Offline
Expert
Cowabanga  Offline
Expert

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,838
take me down to the paradise c...
Nice!
Keep it up smile

Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Cowabanga] #268612
05/30/09 09:20
05/30/09 09:20
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 482
B
bart_the_13th Offline
Senior Member
bart_the_13th  Offline
Senior Member
B

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 482
Cool! Will you put Panther PKFz 2 MBT in your game?
"Only" 10x10km large ? You cant use a single terrain for it can you? So how can you do that? I'd like to make a game that large too...

Just suggestion, some vegetations and deserted ruins will be nice. Not a dense forest, just some palm trees and weeds and cactus perhaps. Maybe some rocks too..

How about adding some smokescreen for the gameplay. The tank crew at that time like to pour some oil to the engine block to create a thick smoke screen to hide the number of their tanks.

Sorry if I asked too much...

Overall this is a good game and it has more potential to dig in...

Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: bart_the_13th] #268693
05/30/09 18:02
05/30/09 18:02
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
J
Jaeger Offline OP
Member
Jaeger  Offline OP
Member
J

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
Thanks for the feedback, guys!

@bart:

We're kind of undecided about things like the Panther, which didn't actually fight in North Africa (just in Italy). But we've been thinking, that if this is going to work as a multi-player campaign, that we will have to create a "what-if" scenario for the sake of gameplay. So it would basically be: "what if the invasion of the Soviet Union did not take place in 1941, Rommel was given more men, tanks, and equipment, and the battle in North Africa is determined by the performance of the players (rather than just having a pre-determined story-line from the history books). In that case, it's almost certain that things like the Panther, Jadgpanther, and even the Jagdtiger would have shown up. But on the other hand, so would some of the more advance Allied equipment, like the Sherman 76! laugh So yes, it's possible. We just still have to decide how the campaign story line is really going to work.

There will also be some palm trees, shrubs, and other vegetation near the coastline. You can also expect some desert oasis areas with some vegetation, and small pools of water. However, there are no cacti in North Africa! wink You can also count on smokescreens. Not just like you mentioned, but actual tanks with smoke generators, smoke grenades, and even smoke shells. That was a very important aspect of the conflict.

You can make your terrain any size you like. However, WED has a 100x100k quant limit. But you can change the scale of your models so the terrain is large in respect to them. But don't go too small. Collision detection doesn't like tiny objects. For the real game, we're going to use chunked terrain to make a massive, seamless world.

Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Jaeger] #268703
05/30/09 18:43
05/30/09 18:43
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 268
United States
Doof_Guy Offline
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Doof_Guy  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 268
United States
I really like that look of this game. My dad started me on PC games with Panzer Commander, so games like these have a special place in my heart =D. Im interested at what the end product will look like, so if you need any models done just send me a pm, and I'll see what i can do.

But back to the game, I really like the idea of the what-if system. That would be really cool if you were able to have the game develop depending on the players performance. I also like how everything will be put into scale of the real thing. Northern Africa will be an excellent setting for the game, and i can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

I'll be keeping an eye on this project,
DG

Last edited by Doof_Guy; 05/31/09 18:33.
Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Doof_Guy] #268797
05/31/09 07:53
05/31/09 07:53
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,140
Baunatal, Germany
Tobias Offline

Moderator
Tobias  Offline

Moderator

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,140
Baunatal, Germany
The game idea could be cool, but the screens are bad. I understand that you want to program the gameplay first, but when you want to show screenshots to anyone else they should not lack the very basic elements, like:

- shadow for the tank
- detail texture for the terrain
- better background, the sky cube from samples is really not for desert

The screenshots as they currently are, let your game look unprofessional from the beginning. Better shots to do your game better justice.

Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Tobias] #268952
06/01/09 00:28
06/01/09 00:28
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
J
Jaeger Offline OP
Member
Jaeger  Offline OP
Member
J

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 258
Chicago
Originally Posted By: Tobias
The game idea could be cool, but the screens are bad. I understand that you want to program the gameplay first, but when you want to show screenshots to anyone else they should not lack the very basic elements, like:

- shadow for the tank
- detail texture for the terrain
- better background, the sky cube from samples is really not for desert

The screenshots as they currently are, let your game look unprofessional from the beginning. Better shots to do your game better justice.


Well, sorry, but the details have to come next. This is a LOT different than making a regular game. With a regular game, you just program things to work the way you want them, and the way that looks/feels right to you. Unfortunately, I can't do that here. I have to make these things work exactly (or as close to exactly as possible, from limited documentation) the same as the real thing. Much of my time is spent pouring through technical documents, doing research, and reading manuals about these vehicles/weapons. I've had to contact museums, historians, and experts to get a lot of the info. The gunsights are a good example. Try to find information about the gunsights of a WWII Panzer online... any model/variant... You can't...

None of the visuals you see here are done, nor will be used in the final product. This is only a glimpse of the future. I had to make the world, textures, skins, and effects myself. I'm not an artist, but a programmer. The other guys working with me are the artists, and they are taking the time to make the beautiful visuals. I just had to throw some stuff together to work on/test the code. It's going to be a while in the making before you see the finished visuals.

The point I'm trying to make is not to be so harsh about some small details when you can't relate to the purpose of the project. I don't believe you've ever worked on a historical simulation before. I know you're an extremely capable programmer, and surely much better than me at coding. But do realize this is world's apart from a a normal game. It really isn't even a "game" per say. You've got to be just as much historian as you are programmer if you want WWII simmers to take you seriously. I'm sure plenty of folks here could code what I've got so far themselves pretty easily. But good luck finding the correct information to put into that code in the first place! laugh

This is only the beginnings of a prototype, and you can expect to see more development here. Screenshots could never do justice to the true beauty of this: historical accuracy.

Re: Panzer IV F2: Tank Sim Prototype [Re: Jaeger] #268958
06/01/09 02:43
06/01/09 02:43
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 929
Spirit Offline

Moderator
Spirit  Offline

Moderator

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 929
Ok its the wrong forum then. This is a showcase, that is for showing game screens that should have at least a little effort put into them. From the forum intro:

"The screenshots should be in professional quality, so if you're just beginning and your project is not yet above amateur level, please post it in the Projects forum."

Programmers art can also look good. Many of the screens here are programmers art, but the programmer must know how to set shadows and add detail textures. Anyway a really serious tank simulation sounds very interesting, as soon as there is something decent to show I would like to see screens here, also a video or demo would be cool.



Moderated by  jcl, Realspawn, Spirit 

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