BEFORE

I used to import houses as mdl with this normal mapping shader assigned http://www.opserver.de/wiki/index.php/Normalmapping_Shader_With_full_specmap_support
And mixed with the shade-c the framerate was still pretty good.

Although being mdl they couldn't cast pre-rendered shadows.

NOW

I've converted those houses to meshes from the import fbx that wed has. I have pre-rendered shadows so I gain framerate, but i can't use the previous normal mapping shader anymore since there's no material defined in it.
Therefore I'm assigning a template shader which is the material mtl_bump but with this shader and shade-c my framerate drops down to a low again.

When i say shade-c i'm talking about hdr,depth of field, reflection and refraction.

I don't think i can be more specific then this.

Any solutions? Any other simpler normal mapping shader that doesn't go in conflict with shade-c?

Uhm the truth is that the more i'm testing the game level the more I realize that even without shade-c switched ON, the mtl_bump shader applied to a concave mesh is still rendered slowly, still killing my framerate.
Is it because the materials processing is slower for blocks and concave meshes and faster for mdls?

can anybody explain this please?

Run a few more tests and I confirm. Why is mtl_bump or even mtl_specbump so HEAVY if I apply it to just 3 concave meshes... while i can just load tons of normal mapped mdls and run with a great framerate? except those don't cast pre-rendered shadows when i compile the level which is why i need to use the concave meshes.

Please help? this topic has been sitting here for a while.

based on my experience, the native gs shaders are really slow, the problem is, most users never make a complete project to notice, they probably try them in a test scene and get good framerate but the moment you start detailing your level, the more you notice how unuseable they are, currently i use the shade-c normal mapping, which is pretty good, i cant say its fast yet though because am yet to test it in a detailed scene...

but isn't the shade-c normal mapping only for mdls?

Alright, forgive my ignorance since I'm a 3D artist not a programmer, but these whatever shaders are actually slowing down framerate only when they are applied to concave meshes.

Somebody I know mentioned about "tangent calculations" slowing down. ???

Cause the shaders run fine and maintain a good framerate when applied to mdls.
But mdls don't cast shadows unless it's realtime, and not pre-rendered.

So

In case 1
I use mdls with normal maps but the shadow stencils realtime kill my framerate.

In case 2
I use concave meshes with pre-rendered shadows but the normal mapping shaders applied to them kill my framerate.

Jeez I'm just trying to have normal mapped models with their shadow stencils in a scenario and mantain a decent framerate.

But it's starting to feel like asking for a miracle. Can anybody REALLY help out here please?

well.. my team is currently under discussions with this, why dont you try baking the shadows into the mdl skin using an external program? giles, max, blender or such?

sadly because:

1. I use mdls with multiple tiled textures so it's a mess. Basically if you think about it with tiled textures it's impossible

UNLESS..

2. I bake shadows with the render-to-texture in max the only way to do it right is to let it auto-unwrap and remap the whole thing which means a huge texture and still in the end a very blury and poorly detailed look.

But I've been thinking and I've probably find a way out of this. A cheap fix which is to:

use normal mapped mdls with short range realtime shadow stencil and an invisible block at the same coordinates that still casts pre-rendered shadows.

That way even if I clip out the realtime stencil I can still see approximately the same shadow .. it's far away so i won't really see if it's casted or not over the mdl.

Not really a time saving solution but it's better then nothing.

you can use a second uv map.

Yeah well at this point the best thing to do is just use every single shade-c feature which involves also terrains.
Today after all the shadows issue casted on a block plane I realized "hey .. i'm not gonna have a flat ground everywhere, i need terrain to make it look bumpy and smooth"
So of course I tried a terrain multi-texturing shader and guess what, no pre-rendered shadow was affecting that hmp with multitexture, of course.

How do I begin and end a sentence with the same word, I got skills? - quote: Chasing Amy

So I realized all these solutions and tricks in the end are not tricks. I was still far away from a solution.

The only one is just use shade-c terrain technology which is an mdl as well with holding the shadow map in alpha channel.

So... everything has to be done fake.

My only regret is I'm using an engine with certain expectations:

1. convex blocks/concave meshes were meant to be for architecture, but if i add a normal map.. framerate dies.

2. hmps were meant to be terrains, but if i add a multitexturing shader I lose the static shadows casted on them.

3. mdls don't cast pre-rendered shadows, so either i have to create lods and assign the crappiest lod's shadow, or have them casted in within a very small range.

Anyway mdls mdls mdls.. I have to do everything with mdls, and I have to FAKE everything in within that certain mdl.

And above all this is far from being a pleasant development, the whole procedure is extremely slow.

Don't think about it as a complain, Think about it as a summary after spending some cash on this engine.

It's not a bad engine in the end, but it's definitely un-finished and personally I wasn't expecting that after all this time since A4.