Hello I am looking to buy the professional version of 3d game studio. But I am not sure about this based on the fact that the engine is closed source. So how would I be able to add new technologies or other things I need rendering wise?

The first changes that will be needed are:


This is for streaming level technology

1. An asynchronous resource loader.
2. An advanced visibility system , which can be easily queried , and which can decide which resources are to be discarded / loaded, based on a set of rules.
3. A 2 level vertex cache system , with an apropiate cache policy. One level holding visible objects in vertex arrays for rendering, the 2nd level caching objects in system memory.
4. a texture cache

Secondly, I have heard 3d game studio can initialize a FTP session for sending files. That is unacceptable! As it is unsecure. Now What I would add is:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/bits/bits/bits_start_page.asp

With BITs you can let's say add textured models, structures on the fly with the user never even knowing they downloaded an update.

As I saw in the demo terrain is VERY ugly right now and full of not needed poly's, my fix:

Of course add Octree =P what else, I hear it is coming next release but why be forced to purchase it when you can just code it yourself =P

Now another set of problems I can think of is:

Professional claims it can be good for an MMO but from what I have read c-script can not interface with any SQL databases. That presents a problem, be it multiple servers and or billing. I saw a hack fix but I would never wirte data to an ambigious text file. Any power user cans earch a file for text just by clicking, start/find files or folders. As everyone knows all important data needs to be stored server side such as money, items and player locations.

Also I didnt see any bindings for .Net me being a C# Junky that saddens me, also the fact of not being able to utilize XML is discouraging.

Finally, is it possible to get the full source of this engine? I just think this would be a good choice based off the fact that I am the only coder and the rest of my team are modelers.

Sorry for the extremely long post and tons of grammatical errors!

-Deruk


**EDIT** Also if anyone wants to donate some bandwidth I will be happy to show everyone what terrain should look like. The file is 5 megabytes so need some bandwidth! If you can't wait till I find bandwidth please feel free to board PM me with your email address and I will be happy to send it to you. Please be sure your mailbox can accept/hold 5 megabytes.

The file can currently be downloaded from: http://4tc.aspfreeserver.com/downloads/ttest.zip

PLEASE SOMEONE MIRROR THIS!!! My bandwidth is very limited on that server. =P

Bump, any takers on these topics?

Seems like you have already made up your mind on 3DGS and that it won't fulfill your requirements....I'm not entirely sure what you want of us.

I'm not sure if your changes can be done this way or not, but most additions to the engine are done through the SDK. As to the Source Code, I "believe" you can purchase it from conitec for I think $50k....

yeah like fastlane said. If you want to add to 3DGS just get the freaking SDK. 3dGS [as is] is perfectly suitable for game development. There becomes less and less that needs to be added to it every few months. If you have a suggestion take it to the Suggestions forum. But nobody want to hear "I'll only buy your product if you do blah blah blah" .
I'm not trying to be a jerk...but seriously.

From Cipher's Forums...

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For streaming, you would at minimum need:

1. An asynchronous resource loader.
2. An advanced visibility system , which can be easily queried , and which can decide which resources are to be discarded / loaded, based on a set of rules.
3. A 2 level vertex cache system , with an apropiate cache policy. One level holding visible objects in vertex arrays for rendering, the 2nd level caching objects in system memory.
4. potentialy, a texture cache


Note that current cipher terrain implementation cannot be streamed. Generally , heightmap bassed terrains, cannot be stremed, and anyway there is no need for streaming such a single heightmap terrain implementation. heightmap. Terrain rendering speedup can be done in many ways, but the very nature of the algorithms contradict streaming.

Also, straming can or not be usefull for a particulare game stsyle.

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Anywho...

For your demo, why not just say take a look at Cipher for good terrains? Then again you could take a look at a couple of Steampipes examples using 3DGS... Or if you say writing an Octree culling system is so easy - why not hack away with the SDK to add an advanced terrain system using adaptive quadtrees?

Why not use BITS? Because it is not intended for game applications. It really only works well with XP and 2003 server. It isn't terribly secure itself. You would be better off to stream the binary data with normal network traffic directly through the normal TCP connections. As far as the user never even knowing they downloaded an update...bad idea. Numerous MMOGs have tried those techniques, but lawyers convince them otherwise. Not to mention the joy of a person with 2 MB left on their hard drive and you decide to stream data in. Currupted files and crashes Oh My! Too bad that it happened when they had their only copy of their thesis open and not saved - and it is now lost. You will hear from their lawyers shortly.

And how many games need to access SQL databases? So, what do people who need it do? Write a plugin. There are several available. It isn't too hard to manage either. Further, what SQL database would you like to access? MySQL, Oracle or MS SQL? Perhaps PostgreSQL. Each of them should have their own interface especially in something as resource intensive as a MMOG.

XML? What do you want from it...other than it is another buz word now? BTW - there are plugins for that as well. Nothing special with XML over say a normal text file.

C#. I hear they have support groups for people like you. Anywho, if you have the time and really want to use C# it should be possible within the next year or so:

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The engine will be split into a platform independent EXE module and a DLL. A defined DLL interface allows using the renderer from other programs or programming languages, like VC++, Delphi, or Visual Basic. See Example for accessing the engine through a C++ interface. A new A6 Plugin SDK will use the same inferface for easier developing plugins without the need to initialize engine variables and functions.

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Otherwise take a look at Purple#. It is one of the most well developed (perhaps only) engines using C#.



Anywho - when you ask questions which are aimed at employees (that is people with a job at Conitec) it is best to do so during the work week...or at least give them a couple days on the weekend to answer. I am sure Conitec will put in their 2 cents come Monday - but right now they are all out womanizing on the streets of San Deigo.

Anyhow I have checked out Axiom and Purple# at the end of the day I just don't have the man power to develop the tools we will need. 3DGS has the tools but is very limited to what you can do to the actual engine. Ah what the hell I will just buy it and bitch about it later.

3DGS isn't as limited as you think. The SDK has allowed users to make all manner of customizations ranging from network additions to graphics additions.

In any case, welcome to the 3DGS community... I think you will be pleased with what the "little engine that could" can really do.

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I think you will be pleased with what the "little engine that could" can really do.

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Hahaha.. lol

Wow I am very impressed with 3DGS!!!! The demo just doesn't do it justice I created my own level with the demo using some pre existing textures and what not from my prior engine and everything looks absolutely amazing! Sorry for the demeaning remarks the engine is wonderful! Don't judge a book by it's cover =P

Deruk