First I should probably point out that I haven't really used this software since A4, apparently lots of great things have occured and some pretty nice 3rd party software (sphere, notably) has emerged. I'm used to the old-school WED level-building process, but I've read that the old BSP-based level geometry is out, and creating geometry in a modeling program is a better move.

Now, my question is as follows... If I were to model, say, a cabin in MED, create the geometry etc no problem... But how do I go about skinning it? Presumably, the player would be able to walk inside the cabin, so the inside would have to be skinned as well, but I can't figure out any obvious way to do this in MED (all I ever seem to get is a shot from front/back or something similar) - so how do I skin the inside?

I have to assume I'm much better off using a 3rd party program to model with... Ideally one that is free, and would have a built-in skinning function so I wouldn't have to tool around in MED. Any suggestions?

All help on this is much appreciated.

Try looking at my tutorial on how to use MED. Although the tutorial needs to be rewritten, it's sufficient enough. Not just with simple objects, but whole levels.

For texturing both sides of a polygon, just copy it, move it off the side (straight up usually) flip the normals, move it back again, then merge the vertices.

Yes, I can see how that can be possible... However, what if I wanted to model with a little bit more detail, creating things such as archways or staircases, etc. Is it really feasible to model a 3-story complex (even just the base elements of one) in MED?

One of the biggest beefs I have with MED is its poor vertex manipulation... The vertices just seem to fail to snap to the grid after a little while, especially after scaling... It just doesn't seem very practical for any sort of serious modeling, even if it's just inanimate objects like buildings.


I have done a search for suggestions on different 3d modeling programs to use and came up with Wings3d.. Does anyone know if this prog has a built-in texturing functionality, and is it easy to bring a finished product (skins and all) into MED format?

Please keep the input coming, it is very much helpful!

I can model almost anything in MED. A 3-story complex, taking out the time to draw the textures (creating them, not applying them), it could take me maybe 10 to 20 minutes. Creating the shape of a staircase takes me but 2 minutes (heard of copy paste)? It takes a while to get used to, but I can work wonders with MED. The MED in 6.40.4 (public beta) has several new features. The only experience I lack with MED is animation as I haven't figured it out fully yet. When building levels, it is important to stick with the scale (my tutorial explains this) for all objects in the level.

From benchmarking experiments I've run, the optimal polygon count for maximum performance is from 2000 to 5000. So, in short, build your models using pieces that are in this size range for the best shapes possible and the highest frame rate. My city world (version 5 of it) had 2388 buildings, a beach, water with waves, clouds, and roads. Although it was getting 20 fps, I didn't know the trick for performance. Nowadays, if I optimized it, I could easily get past 60 fps, even 100 and that's without LOD. This is the best screenshot (from September 2005). All objects you see are nothing but models. I'm now creating the base map of the city world version 6 which will be much more life-like, again, using nothing but models.



For some side notes, don't use the scale feature. It is very inaccurate and I've run across this issue many times myself. I just manually move the vertices (and in 6.4x, you can type in exact positions). If you want it to snap to the grid, click the >|< icon and set the move snap to something other than "off". In many of my cases, 32 at the highest end is too small. 6.4x's MED allows not just powers of two and values beyond this, but screwy values as well (like 3 and 15.625). You can't get much more precise than that....

I appreciate the feedback, but I just don't feel that I'd be able to accomplish anything reasonably good using just MED. I still can't get my head around being able to texture a building that has both an inside and an outside in MED, with just a small 1024x1024 or 2056x2056 skin? It just doesn't make a great deal of sense..

I've looked through your tutorial but it doesn't seem to explain such a feat that clearly. Sure, you can skin front and back, side to side or whatever, but what about having different, indoor textures on the inside, and nice brick/or whatever textures on the outside, while somehow combining this all into one skin of a preset size? I'm lost... There's got to be an easier way to do this...

Plz help! still looking for an answer to my question about Wings3D or any suggestions for other software I should try for modeling buildings or other objects and texturing them.


Thanks for all help so far!

To have different textures on each side, all you need is to do as I mentioned before and give the outside texture A and the inside texture B. When done texturing, move the polygons back and merge the vertices.

As for many different textures on the inside, my tutorial covers this (for the grass area). To have multiple textures for one model, just lay the textures out on the skin as needed then just move the skin vertices of the part in question to the texture needed. There isn't much to it. See how I have the textures laid out on the skin?

As to other modelling software, I have no experience with them at all so I don't know anything about Wings3D, 3DS Max, Blender, and whatever other modelling software there is. MED was the first modelling software I've ever used. Someone else will have to help you with that.

Also, I wouldn't recommend using any texture size above 1024x1024, mainly for compatibility reasons. 6.4's MED allows for easier texture tiling and you can assign multiple texture files to a single model. They should also always be a power of 2 (use 2048x2048 instead of 2056x2056).

Is there a benefit to using models for interiors? I've found that they don't behave all too well when used as containers, and the graphics seem to warp and bleed when you get too close to intersections or cut outs in A5. Changed in A6?

Mark

A5 uses a software renderer and it has that problem, even A4 did. A6 no longer has the software renderer. This is not a problem with A6. The cut-outs come from camera.clip_near being high, still present in A6.

After some thought I decided I'd probably be able to attain my goal faster using ONLY MED and figuring out the skinning aspect, rather than learning an entirely new 3d modeling software and having to deal with conversion and other potential problems...

So thanks Ulillillia for the suggestion, I didn't really realize this was all that possible before trying it for a couple hours last night.

One great thing I learned about MED is that you can do a great deal of a building's geometry in WED and easily transfer it in. No need to bother with flipping normals and merging vertices in MED.

Also, I was able to figure out how to skin an interior as well an exterior. I was always using 'Create MDL mapping' in the skin window rather than just SELECTING THE FACES I WANT TO TEXTURE and then 'Create MD2 mapping'. Makes my life a lot easier.

At any rate, I'm still looking for a 3rd party 3d modeling software for character modeling (or do you suggest I do this in MED too?!??!) and maybe for some more complex things that aren't blocky or easily transferable from WED (say I wanted to model a realistic-looking tree).

Any suggestions would be appreciated also, any thoughts on Wings3d??

For character modelling, others frequently prefer other modelling programs, but MED can do that as well. This, short of animating it, is one of the things I've done. I've tried animation but had weird side effects, of which I have a strange solution for, but untested. That's up to you. Conversions, again not in my realm of knowledge (I don't have any other modelling programs), often don't have problems, unless using the latest beta releases where there are compatibility issues. 6.31 has no such compatibility issues. 6.4's MED is much better in terms of features and quality, but does have a few annoyances and bugs, but they aren't easily noticed.