for those reading this post i just want to clairify that i did not make any of the models or graphics here but rather i am just puting togeather the peices given to me and making it work the best i can

Yeah, I didn't think that was your artwork(judging from the great work you've previously shown).

3DGS has no problem rendering an outdoor racetrack built out of models. There has got to be something wrong with the model. Possibly a very concentrated 24k poly count + very high car poly count(10k) + very old comp = slow rendering...

did the person who made that use lod, because if not that could be a large issue, and is that level all one model, because of course you cant use lod in that case.

I dont see how a 25k poly level is running at 4 fps , during some of my tests with gamestudio at one point i ran a test with around 50 2000 polygon cars using newton game dynamics (though all cars had the same action to them) , and the engine ran at aorund 15-20 fps when all the cars were on screen at one time and at 100 and up when i only was looking at around 20 of them at once , so gamestudio can handle the polycounts , though if gamestudio is trying to render the whole level at once (i.e. the whole level is one model or u have the draw distance set far enough for all the models to be seen at once) , then that could explain the low fps , or it could be some type of extremely bad coding , but prolly poor level design. Most people who are new to game making using BSP and the like usually think gamestudio is very slow because they use insanely poor methods for creating the game assets and wind up with stuff thats done the wrong way for a real time bsp based rendering engine , which is what gamestudio is , even though it's a multipurpose engine it IS better suited for indoor games , now u can make any type of outdoor game as well , but u have to take into consideration how the engine works and abide by it's rules to be able to make something that runs solid and looks good. This is however the case of pretty much any other 3d game engine , so it's not really a bad thing , and once u get the hang of it u'll be able to create some really nice looking stuff that runs at a smooth 60 fps. But yeah , ur problem is prolly gamestudio trying to render the whole level at once every frame , which is a horrible thing , tell the guy whos making the game for you to figure out whats wrong , he should be able to figure it out if he knows how to use GS , btw , thats a pretty cheap looking city , very low polygon and very low detail , there's no way u cant pull off that game looking like that using gamestudio in under 150 fps the least.

btw , check out the car demo on the gamestudio download page , it's a lot better looking and runs perfect , and it's not that small of a level , u'll then see that it's a mistake of urs and not gamestudios for the low fps.

I guess you are misguided when you judge the level from the screenshots. The city quality is almost excellent, made by 3drt. Here is a small version of the city:

http://www.candointeractive.com/gamedesign/car/ghoul/drive.htm
(not mine)
and
http://www.3drt.com/3dm/levels/urban_set/urban_set.htm

About why 3DGS and not torque, I was/am more inclined towards torque. Vincent was the most suitable in the timeframe I had in mind and he know 3DGS only, hence the use of 3DGS.

As long as it plays smooth on a Geforce 3 128MB, I am ok with it. After all I am not selling it

3RDT is the fu**ing sh*t , ur screenies are hideous though , maybe it's still early into setting it up.

What do u have against 3RDT?

yeah , i meant 3drt is awesome and has very good prices.