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Re: Does A7+ABT make A7 superior to Torque?
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#120462
04/05/07 02:13
04/05/07 02:13
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
Indie-games sell much better at the Mac-platform because there is not so much competition. But that might change very fast since Torque and Unity are great game engines for the Mac.
The windows platform is simply overcrowded with high-quality budget games. So competition is simply too hard.
Those high-quality budget games are only competition because they are in the same price range, some people aren't quite looking for Doom3 or other AAA games 2 years after they have been released ... ( besides just imagine the amount of potential customers that already háve Doom3. Some 'budget titles' will never even be real competition, eventhough AAA. Devide what's left of the AAA's through genre, age (I liked Dune II, but I will never buy it again, sorry  ), graphical style(realistic/cartoonish some people really can't stand overly happy graphics) and what's left will be 'our' potential customer base ... competition amongst indie games will be there for sure though. But as I've tried to explain, I don't think we're really competing against Doom3 or other AAA budgettitles, the 'hardcore gamer' doesn't quite play (mostly 'casual') indie games, and if he or she does, it's only better for us, not worse ....)
I'd like to see some numbers on indie-games for the mac before I would conclude they sell 'better' than the non-budget titles for Mac. There aren't thát many games for the Mac compared to Windows and yes there are more indie-games for Mac perhaps, but it's still questionable if they 'sell better' relative to the AAA Mac titles...
I think I've read something about it in Gamasutra and they weren't very optimistic about the Mac platform as 'gamers' platform and the size of a potential customers base (for any developer that is),
Cheers
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Re: Does A7+ABT make A7 superior to Torque?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#120463
04/05/07 07:12
04/05/07 07:12
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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Phemox: Your ideas are welcome but please base them on facts in the future! You can find more facts in articles at Gamedev, Gamasutra, Gameproducer and other portals and even in printed magazines like Gamestar/DEV. In fact some real ugly indie projects (e.g. a Golf simulation) sold on Mac very well (more than 20 thousand per project) while some very good projects sold the same or less on PC. I don't remember all numbers from my head. Here is the story of this ugly golf game that sold very well on Mac: http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/10/16/sales-statistics-gl-golf-over-28000-total-sales/Look at the screen shots and you know that you never will sell it at windows:  Please take my advice and do not post so fast your personal thoughts until they are founded on some knowledge or at least experience. I would appreciate it. Your guessing about non-existing Doom3-budget-customers are a fine story but do not help us to successfully launch products very much.
Last edited by Frank_G; 04/05/07 11:36.
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Re: Does A7+ABT make A7 superior to Torque?
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#120464
04/05/07 08:00
04/05/07 08:00
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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And here is another story just to show you the difference between Windows and Mac market: http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/04/06/sales-stats-tribal-trouble/60 thousand Windows downloads against 25 thousand from Mac and 15 thousand from Linux. There are mainly Windows users but at the end more Mac users bought this game (680 from mac and 460 from Windows). The conversion rate (how many downloads convert into a sale) is 2.8% (Mac) against 0.8% (PC) and against 1.1% (Linux). Mac has 350 percent compared to the conversion rate at PC. Even Linux has a better conversion rate (1.1%). Why is that the case? Competition - as I said - I hope you understand now  
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Re: Does A7+ABT make A7 superior to Torque?
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#120465
04/05/07 14:34
04/05/07 14:34
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
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Frank, I wouldn't be so harsh on Phemox. After all, without a full market analysis what you present is anecdotal evidence at best and not full or relevant "facts".
The relevents fact to this areguement as I see it is how many indie games are MADE for the Mac vs. how many games MAKE IT on the Mac. Are the two games you present the rule or the exception? For those two games, are there 10, 100, 1000 other indie games that didn't make it? What is the total indie market for Macs? What is the revenue for the indie market?
So, IMO, it's not enough to say that a few indie games made it on the Mac as a compelling reason to port over. It's a more complicated matter of understanding your audience and the market and the type of game you are making.
Ultimitely, we are all expressing our opinions here... as in every A vs. B thread (A7 vs. Torque, Mac vs. Window, Taste Great vs. Less Filling).
(PS: Great topic to "port" over to the buisness forum!)
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Re: Does A7+ABT make A7 superior to Torque?
[Re: fastlane69]
#120466
04/05/07 15:09
04/05/07 15:09
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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Yes. You are absolutely right fastlane.
Thanks for this very well thought post.
The "facts" I mentioned are not the absolute truth. I try to base my opinion on knowledge and I will change my mind as fast as I get a good reason to do so.
Unfortunately I do not know the total indie market for Mac / PC or Linux. I really would like to know more about this.
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