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Re: Made or Born? [Re: AlbertoT] #121578
04/07/07 12:42
04/07/07 12:42
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NITRO777 Offline
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Quote:

Yes we "look like" fishes and reptiles but we dont look like birds
This is because we are in the same evolution line : fish - reptile - mammals
It seems strange but it is like that
People normally prefer birds over snakes but snakes are our closer relatives


Thats ridiculous because number 1)we dont look like fish or reptiles in emryonic stages and 2)even if we did it wouldnt make any difference. Just because a fork has similarities to a spoon does not mean one is derived from another. When making these outlandish claims, please provide some link to your sources

Id like to refer you to the following source:
web page

Re: Made or Born? [Re: NITRO777] #121579
04/07/07 13:05
04/07/07 13:05
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AlbertoT Offline
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Some link ? This is the ABC of evolutionism
For example the similarity of some human head bones with the one of the reptiles , in the early stage of life, has been found out by the famous German writer Goethe who was also a serious hobbyest scientist

Re: Made or Born? [Re: NITRO777] #121580
04/07/07 13:05
04/07/07 13:05
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Quote:

***Darkness was upon the face of the "deep" meaning the "water", therefore it is logical to conclude that the first, pre-adamite creation was destroyed by a pre-Noahic flood!




Why would this be logical?? Don't they mean 'deep' as in 'the sea'. Isn't it a bit far fetched to interpret this as a cryptic description of the effects of a 'flood'?

Quote:

Darkness was upon the face of the "deep"




'face' = surface, right? 'deep' = water or sea, right? Well, if 'darkness was upon the surface of the sea', it could simply mean 'it was night'.


As for the embryonic stages, please take a look at these pictures Nitro: http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/wwwhuman/Stages/Images/Cst800.jpg

Between 20 and 30 days we do look like what fish look like at a certain stage. Both our anatomy and morphology have huge similarities during that period of embryonic growth, só many similarities that it's a little hard to deny actually. A spoon and a fork share similarities because they have partially the same function, same goes for our 'embryonic-fish' stage, so an analogy would actually be more or less correct, as long as you remember that a fork is not a spoon nor vice-versa. We don't say we áre 'fishes' before we grow into humans, because that's ridiculous indeed.

Quote:

Just because a fork has similarities to a spoon does not mean one is derived from another.




The spoon was derived from a fork actually.

Cheers


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For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Made or Born? [Re: PHeMoX] #121581
04/07/07 13:48
04/07/07 13:48
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NITRO777 Offline
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All speculation. The embryos only look remotely similar, and even if they did, it does not prove that one evolved from another.

Quote:

Why would this be logical?? Don't they mean 'deep' as in 'the sea'. Isn't it a bit far fetched to interpret this as a cryptic description of the effects of a 'flood'?


No, a flood is the logical conclusion to the existence of the "deep" in verse 2. The reason is that in verse 1 the original heavens and earth is created, right? In verse 2 it states that the earth "became" without form and void. To "become" is causative, something happened to the original earth for it to "become" without form and void, the presence of the "deep" covering the earth and verse two shows HOW it "became" without form and void. There was a pre-Noahic flood. There is more to this also.

Quote:

Some link ? This is the ABC of evolutionism
For example the similarity of some human head bones with the one of the reptiles , in the early stage of life, has been found out by the famous German writer Goethe who was also a serious hobbyest scientist





This is providing us with a good example of the kind of confident announcement with which uninformed evolutionists abound. What you said is purely a presumption. Just because members of a family, or embryos, or silverware are apt to look alike, it is not at all safe to assume that all "look-alikes" are related. You present your statement as though it were factual, and it is a simple supposition without any positive proof whatever. Within the embryos there might be some similarity(there is not but I give you the benefit of the doubt) from an anatomical point of view, but it is quite another thing to state categorically that they are closely related to each other. Resemblance and relationship are by no means the same thing. You make this statement but you are not sure how far removed the relationship is, but the basic assumption still remains that the evolutionary relationship exists. All that the facts might appear to you for similarity(though you have shown me no comparitive links or pictures). Relationship is totally unprovable by an appeal to morphology. You are confusing hypothesis with fact.

I ask that you would at least show me the courtesy which I have shown you. If you think embryo bones and reptile bones are similar, please show me a photo, tell me of a book where you read it or at least tell me that maybe your Mommy told you so Give me something, anything, but please dont tell me that it is "the abc's of evolution" I already know the "abc's of evolution" and I know that the one your trying to tell me is pure speculation and presumption.

Quote:

The spoon was derived from a fork actually.


This is increasingly silly.


I dont see many similarities here.

Re: Made or Born? [Re: NITRO777] #121582
04/07/07 14:08
04/07/07 14:08
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline
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Quote:

Somehow the standard 'evolutionary' generalisation just doesnt make sense, I mean, 3 million years to get to where we are now




Why not? Maybe you dont know how long a million years is..

And what do you mean by a "generalization"? There is nothing general about human evolutionary evidence.. fossils are pretty specific..


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Re: Made or Born? [Re: NITRO777] #121583
04/07/07 14:54
04/07/07 14:54
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PHeMoX Offline
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Quote:

This is increasingly silly.




Hey, you brought it up, not me.

Quote:

I dont see many similarities here.




No offense but if you don't see the vast similarities between the entire top row of pictures then you must be blind for the truth, infact they are even marked in that picture. Truth is, those stages below that first row are stages that start after 30 days. So no wonder that the differences are bigger and bigger. Just like evolution itself, growth goes gradually, not in huge steps skipping the inbetween stuff Nitro!

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Made or Born? [Re: PHeMoX] #121584
04/07/07 15:30
04/07/07 15:30
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NITRO777 Offline
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Quote:

No offense but if you don't see the vast similarities between the entire top row of pictures then you must be blind for the truth, infact they are even marked in that picture. Truth is, those stages below that first row are stages that start after 30 days. So no wonder that the differences are bigger and bigger. Just like evolution itself, growth goes gradually, not in huge steps skipping the inbetween stuff Nitro


No. The top row is Ernest Haeckels fraudulent drawings which Doctor Richardson exposed. Richardson is Englishman and a real buddy of evolution, perhaps you should go out and visit him at the Lieden University right there in Netherlands, ask him yourself about embryo similarities, I am sure he would make time to tell you.

All of these photos on the bottom row are from the same stage of embryonic development, "the tailbud stage".

Here are some better pictures and information:

web page
web page
web page

Re: Made or Born? [Re: NITRO777] #121585
04/07/07 18:04
04/07/07 18:04
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AlbertoT Offline
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I found for example this article on the web

News
Humans ear bones began as reptile jaws
Friday, 16 March 2007 by Sarah Bartlett
Cosmos Online

The first one who noticed such similarities was Wolfang Goethe

Re: Made or Born? [Re: AlbertoT] #121586
04/07/07 18:25
04/07/07 18:25
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NITRO777 Offline
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The article is also here and it has nothing whatsoever to do with embryonic development.

edit:anyone can also read the abstract to Richardson's research here. Its a pretty observable, conclusive study.

Last edited by NITRO777; 04/07/07 19:07.
Re: Made or Born? [Re: NITRO777] #121587
04/07/07 20:52
04/07/07 20:52
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AlbertoT Offline
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Fom Richardson's article

"Embryos of different species of vertebrate share a common organisation and often look similar. Adult differences among species become more apparent through divergence at later stages"

Even though Richardson explains that he does not agree with above claim I dont really undestand how you can claim that it has nothing to do with what we have been talking about
If someone does not agree with a certain theory it means that some else support that theory
At an early stage embryos look similar.This is a matter of fact
Just by chance ?
Maybe ,but for sure it is an "hint" if not a "prove" of a common origin

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