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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: AlbertoT]
#126211
04/26/07 12:42
04/26/07 12:42
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659 San Francisco
JetpackMonkey
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
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As a panentheist I kind of see the cosmos as a life giving entity which is kind of like god.. in that the cosmos creates life, it is life, and it is intelligent in that we are intelligent and contained within it. You don't have to see god as a biblical entity described in the Hebrew bible. So I believe in a kind of greater fractal cosmic computing god which is the underlying substance of being, something so great we cannot know it. The difference between an my POV and an athiest's is that I suspect that this system represents a greater intelligence imbued with meaning, is the substrate of life and love and despair and relief and free will.
Also, I think that most religions and spiritual movements ultimately try to connect to this cosmic computing force, but are heavily laden with different cultural sociological systems, which have advantages and disadvantages. In some ways these systems have become blueprints for society, which now that they are built may be ready to move beyond, and in other cases they represent intense cultural identity which gives easier access to this meaningful but ultimately unknowable fractal intelligence, and can continue to serve their followers. Even in the athiest experience looking introspectively into the human psyche we can find this force in the awe of our own intelligence, of beauty, and the elegance of mathematics. Heaven, life after death, sin, these are trivial and crude human mythologies.
Because of free will, we are accountable for our actions and must take direct responsibilities for our actions, out of respect for the inherent awesomeness of everything and everyone, we should learn to be decent and admire the essence of every person. And try to live in constant awe of our reality, if that means with ritual or without. Meditate, talk to it, talk to yourself, enjoy mathematics or appreciate beauty, to look for and live with awe, to be connected to it, by whatever means you can. For me, I feel I can best connect to it by the creative process, a means of emulating it.. by writing a game, a piece of music, fiction, painting, creating algorithms, solving problems, making things, painting, inventing characters, gathering and processing information.
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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: AlbertoT]
#126212
04/26/07 12:53
04/26/07 12:53
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt
jcl
Chief Engineer
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Chief Engineer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986
Frankfurt
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Quote:
Just the bloody , crude evidences can lead people to atheism
Evidence has something to do with it, but there's more to it. Here's Atheism 101:
First, Atheism is very different to Agnosticism. Agnosticism is a rational conclusion, while Atheism is a philosophy or if you want, a religion.
Agnosticism says: God is invisible and inactive, i.e. he does obviously not influence any events in this world. Because there's no difference between an ever-invisible and inactive god, and a nonexistent god, it's irrational to believe in god's existence. I am rational, therefore I do not believe in god.
Atheism says: You came into this world by pure chance. This is a privilege - you can enjoy life - but it's also a responsibility and puts some duties on your shoulder. Those duties include to make good use of what you're given, especially your brain; to not delude yourself; to define a purpose to your life. Inventing a god is an attempt to evade those duties, therefore believing in god is immoral. That's why Atheists don't want to believe in a god.
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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#126213
04/26/07 12:59
04/26/07 12:59
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010 analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
I dont believe in God (or gods) because there is no reason to do so. Nothing in the experience of life indicates that there is a supernatural supreme being. In fact all the evidence of observation reveals only natural processes. That doesn't disprove the existence of God, but you can't you disprove anything like this..
Your root cause of belief seems to be exactly the same as mine, only opposite in that you seem to see atheism as a default state of birth and I definitely see theism as a default state at birth. It is somewhat uncomfortable to believe that people are just born diametrically opposed to one another, however I suppose I can accept it. It further reinforces my belief that wars are inevitable and any attempts at peace always have been and will always be useless.Why? Because people are just born for conflict.
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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: JetpackMonkey]
#126214
04/26/07 13:04
04/26/07 13:04
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Quote:
As a panentheist I kind of see the cosmos ....
As a matter of fact the difference between panentheist and atheism is quite thin
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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: jcl]
#126215
04/26/07 13:22
04/26/07 13:22
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Quote:
Agnosticism says:
Agnosticism in my opinion says that there is no sure evidence neither in favour nor against the existence of God At least this is what I meant in my previous post
Quote:
Atheism says:.... therefore believing in god is immoral.
I agree that religious people may be in some cases, not alwayes of course, immoral persons The reason is, in my opinion, that extremism can generate monsters Take Comunism for example It is grounded on highly ethical principles, you have seen the results
A laicist view of life might be plain , flat and emotionless but it leads to two magic words " Common sense "
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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: aztec]
#126217
04/26/07 17:46
04/26/07 17:46
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Quote:
I believe in god because he helped me out in many situations and he allways gives me the strengths within. And even if there would be no god why not try with him what would me life be without him? nearly the same so I give it a try. hey and Sience guys also just are humans I dont allways believe them
Well a little bit opportunistic
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Re: Why do you belive/not belive in god?
[Re: AlbertoT]
#126218
04/26/07 20:33
04/26/07 20:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414 Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
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I do believe in an absolute, indestructible and eternal question mark, that maybe has some qualities of a "being" and some qualities of a "theory of everything" - and a lot of implications for my life - and because I´m such a lazy person, and because I grew up under western influence, I tend to call it (much shorter): God. How did I reach this point? I was never forced and I never forced myself into "faith" or a particular faith system. Actually - for me - it has nothing to do with faith. I´ve no idea, why people can have faith, or how this faith-thing works. I never pray and I don´t go to church. In the end it´s a long and personal story, with some similarities to the story, that can be found in a book: "The Man without Qualities" - "Der Mann ohne Eigenschaften". It´s the story of a mathematician, who has lost his faith in the worldly world and finally he makes a mystic attempt. It ends with a very clear and detailed description of this special condition.. Well, actually the book doesn´t end. Musil unfortunately died in 1942 after writing on this book for approximately twenty years. After I somehow finished this book, I wanted to write a screenplay. It somehow turned into a mystic experience, that lasted for seven days. Very strange, more like translating an abstract message into a text - instead of inventing it. Maybe I could describe it like this: some events in my life remained in my memory, some books or pieces of art, movies etc. impressed me more than others. For a long time all these experiences remained unconnected with each other: like accidents. Somehow in this mystic period "everything", all the details, seemed to have a big meeting in my head, they arranged in a way, that - for the first time - made sense. I felt a huge contrast between the ordinary, real world - as it is, and a possible world - the world as it should be according to the "question mark", I mentioned above. This happened almost ten years ago, but it changed my life completely. I couldn´t say, that it became more easy and in a certain way the last ten years could be described as a series of attempts to convince myself, that these seven days were just a period of inspiration. Well long story, short sense: Mysticism is for me something very real, not mysterious. All my rational thoughts come to exactly the same conclusions. But what can I do with something that weighs so heavy? I think, a life, according to what S. Freud called "the principle of reality" will make you probably more happy. It´s also much more practical. Trust your genes! Just leave the difficult decisions to your DNA! For me unfortunately it´s probably too late. Maybe I do belong to a crazy species, that should have died out a long time ago
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