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Which I agree with 100%. However, if you say you care about Jesus, how can you hate other Christians? Especially since Jesus is supposed to be living in the hearts of those who believe? Im not saying your a hater, Im not saying anyone is, but if you more concerned whether someone in the world is gonna get their toes stepped on because you live a good life, are you going to change your ways just to make them happy? If Im trying to let people know the love of Christ is for those who have abortions should I have my wife have an abortion just so that I can show them that I can relate? Or should I all of a sudden say that abortion is ok because I dont want to hurt anyone's feelings? I dont believe so, I believe abortion is murder, I will never stop beliveing that, I would always call a spade a spade. I think homosexuality is perverse, I think sex before marriage is profane, I think alcohol is a killer, I think some swearing is blasphemous, and the list goes on. Do I hate you if you do something which is a sim against the Bible? No. But I will never say that these things are ok just because "I dont want to judge" , if I did that it would be a compromise and one thing the world does not need to see is more Christians make compromises, thats my two cents.




I don't disagree with much of anything here. I don't think anyone should sin for the sake of being able to relate; and I don't do so. However, I've been through a lot of crap in life, and I can either choose to forget about it, or I can use it to help me understand others and be there for them when they need someone to talk to.

Here's an example on what I mean about some of these things: Take swearing. It's a collection of words that are considered "curses" in our language. But they also have other meanings. You can use the words without sin, but you can also use them sinfully. As a metaphor, think about a chair (as language). I can use it how it was intended, and sit on it. Or I can stand on it to use it for a stool even, not it's original design intent, but I don't sin by doing either. Now, I can take the chair and hit you with it- that is sin. Likewise, I can say that I am sitting on my ass being a forumrat for a while today. Not sinning. But if I go and say you're an ass hole, I am sinning (no worries, I don't think anything of the sort of you.. for metaphorical purposes only ). I chose not to elaborate on this to avoid having to elaborate my post into several pages . Some people are offended by just the word, so I try to not use those words at all around them or people I'm unsure about. But around those I know are not bothered by it, and I know their consciences aren't defiled or weakened by it (see Paul's "meat offered to sacrafices" writing, can't remember where), I don't hold my tongue. I look at things in morality by finding where the real problem is, it's the curse, not the word. A curse is not a word, it is an ill-meant utterance, but the English language has made the two very synonymous.

I never said I hated Christians, I said I disagreed with some of what they commonly believe and do. There is a difference between "judging" and "discerning." Judging is making a conclusion about someone by their actions- discerning is being able to recognize that the action itself is right or wrong. I'm not going to call out a person for doing something wrong if it isn't hurting anyone, because it is only going to cause resentment, it will not be received as it is intended. If they are hurting another person through their action, I will likely call it out in attempt to stop it, not in attempt to save them from their own action. I can't save them from their own action, much less convince them it is wrong unless they believe in morality on an equal footing. If I can argue it without the bible, I may attempt to convince them, but if it requires belief in an absolute moral system- it's a waste of time to try. For example, there is no way to convince someone that sex before marriage is wrong without using the
Bible. You can say it is unfair to potential future people they may share sex with, but then they can refute and say what it is days before a wedding with thier betrothed? The commitment of marriage is more certain than the possibility of divorce throwing it back into the same problem- another future partner. You're left without a concrete defense without the morals set forth in the Bible. Even in the Bible, there are many ways to argue exceptions and more depending on how your interpret things- but if the other person also has a footing in the Bible, there is a way to convince them that it is wrong.
EDIT: in addition to the sex before marriage after your last post.. you say "sacred" and that illustrates my point. What if the person doesn't believe it is "sacred" or that you "become one" with the other person? If they don't believe that, how do you convince them when you are looking at it from two completely different worldviews? You can't.

This is just me elaborating on some things you mentioned showing you what I mean further behind my words.

EDIT: also realize that a lot of what I say above is in response, although if standalone I would probably put things differently (or not bother at all... lol). Trying not to open a whole new can of worms

Last edited by Rhuarc; 05/10/07 18:59.

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