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Re: Environment
[Re: fogman]
#128133
05/12/07 11:28
05/12/07 11:28
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
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Serious User
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Quote:
The problem is, that the global conditions are a chaotic system. A small impact can have a very big effect.
How many butterflies are there on our earth ? Why are we still alive , then ?
The theory of chaos is a serious theory but it must be understood with a grain of salt The only parameters to be taken into consideration are :
- The amount of pollution produced by human beings - The dimension of the container - The capability of regeneration of our planet
All the rest, butterflies, rockets..etc are only bla..bla.. in my opinion
Again, I dont know wether humanity can really have as a serious inpact on the enviromental. Also serious scientits support this hypothesis I have no doubt however tha the majority of the catastrophic ecologists are charlatans
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Re: Environment
[Re: AlbertoT]
#128134
05/12/07 17:30
05/12/07 17:30
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
I have no doubt however tha the majority of the catastrophic ecologists are charlatans
That's how things like this always go ... at first, it's a serious issue someone wants to expose, then they get some followers and it spreads. Then, some populists stand up and take it all the way to fanaticism. At one point the original issue doesn't get taken as serious as it should perhaps, or perhaps it should not like you more or less indicated, but along the way some truths get twisted no doubt. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)
I think you're right about the chaos theory and indeed I think it's not really about butterflies causing a hurricane on the other side of the world, that's just the simple analogy that people use to indicate "what it's about" influence-wise.
You probably won't find people claiming that because of the recent increase of butterflies all around the world, we've got more hurricanes, tornados and tsunamis now. (Lol, instead people say Armageddon is at hand, but that's a different story altogether. )
Quote:
The only parameters to be taken into consideration are :
Isn't part of the theory aimed at the fact that you might not know all factors and parameters, or doesn't it assume that we never know all factors when it comes to the more complex systems and their effects?
Cheers
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Re: Environment
[Re: PHeMoX]
#128135
05/14/07 05:19
05/14/07 05:19
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,181 Austria
Blattsalat
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,181
Austria
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small impact on butterflies? a nice image that showcases the "small" impact of the human race on this planet: if this would be cancer, we could concider this our last day ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif) i personaly dont buy the "small matchbox in the big atlantic ocean" theory. pollution is a missive issue and we are running down this planet faster then you can say chaos theory. can mankind cause massive and global pollutions or climatic changes? maybe the picture above can bring some light into this issue. cheers
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Re: Environment
[Re: Blattsalat]
#128136
05/15/07 00:14
05/15/07 00:14
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973 Bay Area
Doug
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Senior Expert
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The *fact* is, most scientist think that the world is warming up, that this is generally bad for the human race, and that it is caused (at least in part) by us.
Yes, they could be wrong. Yes, you can find scientist that disagree. Yes, this could all just be nothing. But, there is a *really* good chance that they are right.
To continue the cancer analogy, if you found a big lump on you neck that didn't go away, would you just hope it was okay or would you go to the doctor?
Now lets say a dozen doctors looked at it. 11 of them said it was life threatening cancer and it needs to be removed at once. Doctor number 12 says it's probably cancer, but it could be something else. Oh, BTW, this doctor works for a man who runs a toxic waste dump in your backyard.
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Re: Environment
[Re: Doug]
#128137
05/18/07 10:23
05/18/07 10:23
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 136 San Francisco
Tor
Member
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Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 136
San Francisco
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The fact is that most scientists who were saying that there was no global warming are now acknowledging that there is indeed something amiss...
The sad fact of the matter is that most of these "scientists" are usually people backed by larger companies with a vested interest in the said scientists "findings"...
You have to be very wary of where your source comes. I'm sure, somewhere, there's a middle ground. But let's be serious for a second...
The middle ground between nothing wrong and... The end of life as we know it?
Hm? >_>
"Towlie, you're the worst character ever."
I know...
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Re: Environment
[Re: Doug]
#128138
05/18/07 18:37
05/18/07 18:37
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
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Serious User
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Quote:
The *fact* is, most scientist think that the world is warming up
It is also a fact that most scientits thought , just some years ago, when pollution was even worse than nowadays that world was cooling down
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Re: Environment
[Re: AlbertoT]
#128141
05/21/07 19:07
05/21/07 19:07
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973 Bay Area
Doug
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
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Quote:
Do you mean that human impact is so strong that it can even overcome the forces of the nature ?
Yes. So do cows and termites (with our help). But humans are much better at it. The world is big, but not as large as you might think. And there are a huge number of humans on it.
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Moreover it is a matter of fact that cold periods have been followed by hot ones and viceversa
Yes. And we are suppose to be in a cold cycle right now. But instead, we're reaching all time highs (and getting hotter).
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Re: Environment
[Re: Blattsalat]
#128142
05/22/07 05:46
05/22/07 05:46
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
a nice image that showcases the "small" impact of the human race on this planet:
No, not really, in fact it's a nice way to show how images can really distort truths. 71% of earth is water, the remaining 29% are continents and islands. Well, if you look at that image it almost looks as if it's completely the other way around, but that's not reality. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)
Cheers
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