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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: D3D]
#135804
06/12/07 06:52
06/12/07 06:52
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,320
Alberta, Canada
William
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,320
Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
The problem is is that you aren't really relearnig anything. C-script and Lite-C are remarkably similar. The changes you'd have to make are minor and conversion is well documented. There are a couple of sections where it gets into new territory, but all and all it's not a huge difference. It's just a lot of little things that just happen to add up; however once you've used the new way a few times, it will become 2nd nature just like anything else.
Exactly. What's being done here makes sense. As far as I know, C-script will be supported throughout A7. Now, let's say A7 is there for 2-3 years. This should give anyone enough time to finish there projects with c-script. If your creating a new project today, and expect it to be in development for 4-5 years, then use Lite-C. If you've just been working on something for a year or so, odds are you don't have a large amount of code and can change it to Lite-C without too much trouble.
Also, I wouldn't say this engine is focusing on kids at all. The templates focus on beginners, not necessarily kids. If your a serious developer you wouldn't need the templates, because I guarantee that you will need to learn how to program to achieve a large game. Also, look for some of Doug's older posts. It seems as though there will be some exciting updates for template users sometime within A7.
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: William]
#135805
06/12/07 07:31
06/12/07 07:31
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 28,024
Frankfurt
jcl
Chief Engineer
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Chief Engineer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 28,024
Frankfurt
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I think this is more a psychological than a technical issue. People who are scared of lite-C or of new templates obviously don't know them - otherwise they weren't scared  . Lite-C and new templates just give you more freedom and new functions, without being any harder to use. If you don't want to use that freedom, you can continue to program in lite-C just as you were used in C-Script. You can even continue to program in C-Script itself, and even with the old templates. Afraid of learning something new? You do not need to. That's why we keep Gamestudio as backwards compatible as possible to old versions. However, we are running a business in a fast evolving technological market. Very conservative users who are opposed against new features are a small minority among game developers. Most of them like new features. That's why we permanently improve our product, even if this requires the user to learn something new from time to time. - NITRO77: Please watch your language. Foulmouthing and insulting other users will get you banned from this community. Consider this a last warning.
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: jcl]
#135806
06/12/07 09:06
06/12/07 09:06
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,490
Orange Brat
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,490
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Quote:
lite-C will be the bridge for 3DGS users to real game development...
What this mean? I've been using 3DGS since the language was still called WDL. I would consider myself a "real" developer working on a "real" game. 3DGS, in it's current form, is certainly "real" and you can make "real" games with it. There are many misconceptions about our little engine; one being that it isn't all that powerful, is slow, and other such silly things. It's much more powerful than a lot of people give it credit for and can kick ass with the best of them and is very friendly for developer like myself who don't eat, sleep, and drink code. I can use the skills I learned in classes way back in the day and those I've learned since and apply them to c-script (or Lite-C when I start getting serious with it, because then I'll be ready for the "real" world  ).
Quote:
However, we are running a business in a fast evolving technological market.
I was going to comment on some other remarks in here, but this particular line from jcl sums it all up nicely. Conitec is a business in a very competitive market. They were one of the first and best (and still are as far as I'm concerned) at what they do, but times do change, which means change has to occur with the product. There have been a lot of engines spring up with only 1-2 years of development and seeming $500,000 worth of features (comparing it to Unreal3); however they require the user to know C++ or something similar which automatically makes me move on. C-script is a brilliant language. I don't care what "real" programmers have to say about it. It works, and the "fake" programmers and designers can learn it. Lite-C is pretty much c-script with more bells and whistles and more conventional ANSI C crap thrown in to appease the "real" programmers, so they can hook into all those "real" tools and APIs and whatnot.
All right, enough of my smart aleck jabbing to the ribs of xXx. I'm going to go continue work on my "fake" game. I just wish my Wacom Intuos3 6x8 tablet would hurry up and get here. I can't wait. 
My User Contributions master list - my initial post links are down but scroll down page to find list to active links
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: Orange Brat]
#135807
06/12/07 10:40
06/12/07 10:40
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 776
Poor village - Poland ;)
tompo
User
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User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 776
Poor village - Poland ;)
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I will wait for A8... why... A6 = c-script A7 = c-lite A8 = C++ probably Or maybe I'll just buy a visual studio, download some free graphic engine and will start learnig full C++ ? In few yeras I'll have enough knowlage to return programming with A8 C++ 3dgs
Never say never.
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: tompo]
#135809
06/12/07 11:07
06/12/07 11:07
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,655
testDummy
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,655
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(Kids, if you happened to have viewed this 'erroneous' post, well, let's just put it this way: you should stay in school and stay off drugs. Also, if you have psychiatric medication, you should almost always take that.)
Last edited by testDummy; 06/12/07 14:33.
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: testDummy]
#135810
06/12/07 11:39
06/12/07 11:39
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,490
Orange Brat
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,490
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Quote:
You know, nowadays people just throw the word 'brilliant' around willy-nilly.
I had to quote this remark to one of my remarks. I use the term "willy-nilly" in The Disenfranchised in one of the many voice overs. I find that funny/strange/ironic/whatever. Yes, lots of people throw around the term; however IMHO c-script is indeed brilliant for what it is intended for. I can use it, and I don't have to know calculus and all that other garbage to use. I could care less about it. The same holds true for Lite-C. It's just a bit more advanced, but basically the same.
If you don't like the language, then feel free to interface with another that suits your needs. That's the whole point of Lite-C; otherwise stop "mucking" about and patronizing people. If you don't like, don't eat it.
P.S. - Just so you'll know, I don't really like you very much. Just thought I'd clear that one up. I can get along with anyone...my best friend used to be my "mortal" enemy, but he turned out all right in the end. You....I just think you're a pompous ass. I'll leave it at that, and I think your little tirades which you think are clever and oh so hoi poloi are the result of someone who has had too much to drink or whatever.
@Conitec: Sorry for that, but it's my time of the month, and I've held it in long enough with this one. Won't happen again...at least not here.
...back to topic...
My User Contributions master list - my initial post links are down but scroll down page to find list to active links
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Re: New Features, Thanks :-(
[Re: Orange Brat]
#135811
06/12/07 12:22
06/12/07 12:22
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
JibbSmart
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
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@testDummy: i know C++ rips on C, but this is still a huge step. just as usual, you can still use C++ with A6/7 through the SDK, and from the sounds of things you do. lite-C is a big step because it is basically the same as C, and can still be used the same as C-Script (with "function"s and "var"s and whatnot). a significant proportion of 3DGS users are learning (i know we all learn every day and whatever, but i'm talking about really fresh programmers) and lite-C makes it extremely easy for those of us looking for a future in larger-scale game-development to slip into a more complicated and less restricting programming style, which is virtually forward-compatible with C++ should they want to learn it. Quote:
Repeat after me:
"Sometimes I'm a true, truckin dummy."
"Sometimes I don't know a damn thing about the topic being discussed, even if it is 'my topic'."
"Sometimes I make stupid mistakes over and over again."
"Sometimes I truck up really well."
"Sometimes my mind is cloudy mess, and I can't see it from multiple angles."
"Sometimes my psychology gets the better of me."
"Sometimes others can use psychology to gain an advantage over me."
...Quote:
Please watch your language. Foulmouthing and insulting other users will get you banned from this community.
^^ keep up the good work
Quote:
but that Conitec offers me something that might be less-than-C, and packages it as NEW thing. I must have made a mistake somewhere, because THAT strategy doesn't seem to make much sense.
its very nicely integrated into the engine... it is much easier to use than C or C++ with other engines (in general, i'm not gonna say ALL other engines). and lite-C is by no means less than C -- it covers all the syntax and features of C and (apparently) a couple of C++.
don't underestimate lite-C. and if you don't need it, don't use it.
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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