I think he is stating the same lesson we've all learned after a while: that after a certain point in the industry, you aren't making games... you are building/running a business.

That if money is no concern (either spending or earning), then "just" make games. But if you want to make money, you do that by running a good business, not by making a good game.

Close oldschooli?

Personally I think you idea is really good as an internal tool, as a way to get your team and project in synch and working towards a known goal. As a community tool though, for the reasons I've stated above, I don't think it will work. Hell, it's hard enough getting an ICQ community going and that is available right now!

explanation:
When your doing this do make money, and you think of it as a game, then your probably not going to make money.

Thanks Fastlane...

I would prefer to see more projects run from the point of view make money first game play second third, ... last....

Ulitmately there will be less studios to compete against because, IMHO the money first mentality means your game is going to be lame and not sell very well. Thus the studio falls into the abyss.....

Game Play, passion for game play innovations is what is critical for a small studio to succeed.

How many games shipped before they were truley ready and sucked beans...

Game development is an very much an art and very little science, and quite honsetly very little business.

Good business and solid production models are important, but they have killed and or screwed up more games than they have helped....

If you are not having fun building the game, then the end result will probably suck.....

Ken

I'm sorry if I offended you. Let me clarify so that you don't have your feelings hurt.

Anyone making a game for fun should ejoy it, because thats what they are trying to achieve.

Any game that is meant to produce an income, or profit, should ALWAYS be from the point of view "How are we going to make this game sell." The truth is that a commercial game is just a business model, and as hollow as that seems it's absolutely true. You can't build a game with the intention of making it fun, and what people want, because people don't KNOW what they want. And if you are in the business of making games to have fun, than you will have alot of fun. But I'm in it to make money, and hopefully somewhere along the line have some fun to.

I love playing games, and art, and math. I'm good at it and feel that it could earn a nice living. But my art, and creativity is not what I'm trying to sell. I'm trying to sell a product, that will get people to spend their money, and feed my family.

I have not followed this thread in full, but to answer the original question: A developer community is planned, however not by us - we weren't able to finance a project of this size - but by a partner. There will be more information in a couple of months.

I think some of you are getting confused between "making fun games" and "making games for fun" (easy to do, especially if English is not your first language).

Unless you are making something like a movie tie-in, making your game "fun" is key to sales. But making a game, like any programming project, isn't always fun to do.

At least I think that's what the original post was trying to say.

absolutely doug, that was exactly what I was trying to say. However, I disagree that games are supposed to be fun.

Let me give you an example. Take any activity in life that one might find as fun, going to the movies, watching sports, dating, wathcing tv, etc.

What do all of these things have in common? Eventaully, you stop doign them because they become either boring or you have to do something else. Then, once you've stop for long enough, yo ustart doing it again, because you enjoy it.

Why are video games not built on the premise that they are fun, or rather, why SHOULD they not be built using that strategy? Simply put, a buyer will play a game that they find fun, for as long as it is fun. And like other activities the only reason they will keep playing it is because they find it addicting, or they assume some sort of personal involvment in the game that makes it more than "just a game".

Hence, making a game that is targeted at being "highly addictive", and focusing on how to get people "personally involved" will do much better. As, I stated before, people DONT know what they want. But, EVERYONE can be addicted, and if you make a game that is targeting peoples addictions, or feelings, then you will sell alot more copies then a game built around being FUN.

Also, if you want any advice, ideas, or want me to talk with your partners at all, let me know. I am always full of ideas, and though they may not be the best for you, some of them might help.

I respect your opinion, and thanks for the input on the applet for chat.
Though I think I've said more on this thread than I have said in 2 years of owning the engine, and I'm worn out lol.
In conclusion, it looks like conitect is working on my proposal already, and it really isn't my own after all. I hope it goes well for the company, and the users benifit from it in the end.

Back to the trenches for this haggard indy:)

I also respect yours. I just want to throw in what I have learned from my time in the industry, for whatever its worth....

Please include me on any early reviews of your game. I would love to help you find the fun in the game, and maybe even fun in the developing.

Good luck on your game development, keep me in the loop regarding help / crits...

Ken