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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: Nems]
#149568
08/31/07 07:25
08/31/07 07:25
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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what i meant by "breaking the speed-of-light barrier" was that such things don't violate any relativistic laws. i should've been more clear about that.
but like i said, it's like an animation. it's not something actually moving (or at least not in the way we perceive it).
if everyone in a stadium threw their hands in unison, it could be described as a faster-than-light mexican wave. then we could all have a discussion as to whether the wave traveled clockwise or anti-clockwise.
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: Nems]
#149569
08/31/07 18:56
08/31/07 18:56
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
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fastlane69
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Quote:
I cant see how such info could ever have been released in the first place if it was incorrect.
Inaccurate information on the internet? Impossible! 
Muons were discoverd in the 30's. There is no scientific publication of that time that I could find that even hinted at them being tachyon candidates.
Julz: I think we are both saying the same thing.  The definition of Speed is a change in position over time... it doesn't matter what is changing position. In fact, your dragonball example, technically, also has a speed faster than the speed of light. The basic fact that I'm trying to impress (and you may already know) is that information cannot travel from one place to another FTL. The DB example, the flashlight example, all of these are FTL but cannot be used to transfer information FTL. So again, FTL speeds are possible but not to transfer information... hence teleportaion or massive FTL (both of which could carry a message) are impossible under current physical laws.
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: Nems]
#149571
08/31/07 21:26
08/31/07 21:26
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fastlane69
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Quote:
What the net has to do with this when it didnt exist at the time is beyond
I assumed that you found this information on the net and not in the original journal. However...
Quote:
This information was from the scientists journals at the time and also included in subsequent public encyclopaedias during the same time period.
...so could you provide a citation or reference where he states that muons are FTL?
The discoverer of the Muon was Nobel Prize winner Carl D. Anderson in 1937 and I can find no reference on the net or in journals of that time where he or anyone else at that time proposed Muons to be tachyons. They have always been massive and detectible and where always referenced as such, never Tachyons that I could find. I would be facinated to find references to the contrary though! 
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149572
08/31/07 21:41
08/31/07 21:41
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Lol, "massive" is overrated  ... isn't matter just all these vacuums of space next to eachother and such? Cheers
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: PHeMoX]
#149573
08/31/07 22:24
08/31/07 22:24
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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Quote:
Julz: I think we are both saying the same thing.
you're right
i guess i forgot that you said something along the lines of this from the beginning:Quote:
hence teleportaion or massive FTL (both of which could carry a message) are impossible under current physical laws.
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: PHeMoX]
#149574
08/31/07 23:39
08/31/07 23:39
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fastlane69
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Quote:
Lol, "massive" is overrated ... isn't matter just all these vacuums of space next to eachother and such?
We really don't know what Mass is! At the lowest level, mass is categorized into leptons and quarks. Leptons are like the electron and neutrino while quarks are the constituents of protons and neutrons (and many many more).
However, the standard model has NO firm explanation for what gives these particles mass nor what mass "is". Right now, there is a very important experiement at the LHIC trying to find the Higg's particle, a theoretical particle/field that gives leptons and quarks their mass. But still, this is further deconstruction and why mass behaives the way it does (and it's connection to gravity) are still mysteries.
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: PHeMoX]
#149575
09/01/07 07:10
09/01/07 07:10
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
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Quote:
Lol, "massive" is overrated ... isn't matter just all these vacuums of space next to eachother and such?
Cheers
To complete fastlane's answer I would like to add the following consideration
Vacuun has been banned by quantum physics as a direct consequence of the Heisenberg's principle of indetermination
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: AlbertoT]
#149576
09/01/07 18:50
09/01/07 18:50
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fastlane69
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Quote:
Vacuun has been banned by quantum physics as a direct consequence of the Heisenberg's principle of indetermination
Not quite but I think I know what you are trying to say.
The vacuum, in physics terms, is the lowest energy state. It is true that a vacuum of "exactly" Zero is impossible due to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle between Time and Energy... but that doesn't mean that a lowest energy state doesn't exist, just that it's not always zero and not always constant. But we still use a vacuum in our calculation so it hasn't been banned, merely redefined.
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149577
09/01/07 20:35
09/01/07 20:35
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
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Quote:
... but that doesn't mean that a lowest energy state doesn't exist, just that it's not always zero and not always constant.
Yes ,It is what I meant, but according to classic Physics and common sense "Vacuum" must be alwayes zero and alwayes constant, otherwise it is not vacuum ,not at least in the dayly meaning of this term
Not only , due to the equivalence mass\ energy it has been proved that "vacuum" can "create" massive particles from "nothing" , even though their lifespan is extremely low
This is one of the most amazing discoveries of the modern physics , in my opinion
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