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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149580
09/03/07 17:49
09/03/07 17:49
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PHeMoX
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Lol, "massive" is overrated ... isn't matter just all these vacuums of space next to eachother and such?
We really don't know what Mass is! At the lowest level, mass is categorized into leptons and quarks. Leptons are like the electron and neutrino while quarks are the constituents of protons and neutrons (and many many more).
However, the standard model has NO firm explanation for what gives these particles mass nor what mass "is". Right now, there is a very important experiement at the LHIC trying to find the Higg's particle, a theoretical particle/field that gives leptons and quarks their mass. But still, this is further deconstruction and why mass behaives the way it does (and it's connection to gravity) are still mysteries.
Okey, but the theory about some sort of nucleus with a constant 'mass' is already history I think, because even that nucleus seems to consist of more vacuum and less 'mass' the more you zoom into it.
On a totally unrelated note I think the fact that we can not find the true 'mass' may have the same reason as why we can't find 'thoughts' inside the human brain. It's all just interpretations and definitions of what we haven't fully understood yet. (If that sounded like total nonsense to you then I've probably misunderstood certain parts of a movie called 'What the bleep do we know', a popular science documentary-something about quantum physics... not quite a good source for anything serious I think.)
Cheers
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149582
09/03/07 21:20
09/03/07 21:20
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"What the bleep do we know" was a high production introduction into Quantum Mechanics and it's mysteries. However, it had too many "kooks" spouting off channeling and other odd theories. I would have been happier if they had stuck to real science...
True, at some point that movie starts to get ridiculous...  I also don't like the way they present theories as fact by the way, for example about the "objects are everywhere until you become aware of them" theory. There's no serious scientist that claims this to be fact, but off course it's popular among the 'it's all a simulation'-fans and such. And yup, the channeling talk is pretty crazy too,
Cheers
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: PHeMoX]
#149583
09/04/07 00:19
09/04/07 00:19
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fastlane69
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"objects are everywhere until you become aware of them"
That's crazy but scientifically true. An object is undefined until a measurement is done on it. Hence as far as quantum mechanics is concerned, if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, it both did and did not make a sound!
We don't experience that on our scale of living because of the "huge" energy environment we live in. Go into the "lower" energy of atomic and sub atomic physics and the above effect become more tangible.
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149584
09/04/07 10:25
09/04/07 10:25
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Doug
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The movie, "What the bleep..." is actually a recruiting film for a cult that follows the teachings of a 35000 year old warrior named Ramtha. Any real science in this film is accidental and, by the time they get done with it, totally misunderstood. (Heisenberg uncertainty principle does not mean that you can become a god by just thinking really hard about it  ).
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149585
09/04/07 12:59
09/04/07 12:59
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An object is undefined until a measurement is done on it.
Yes, off course, but this doesn't mean there are dozens of clones in all the possible places when you aren't aware of them, right? The movie sort of claims that. I don't know how this would work on the quantum physics level, but if an object can be at several possible places in theory (since you aren't aware of where it really is), then in practice it's still just at one place... it's not secretly organizing the split second you're looking.
Cheers
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: PHeMoX]
#149586
09/04/07 17:29
09/04/07 17:29
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fastlane69
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The movie, "What the bleep..." is actually a recruiting film for a cult that follows the teachings of a 35000 year old warrior named Ramtha.
Ahh, kinda like the creation museum's use of science... gotcha! That would explain why the movie was so "crazy" heav and why they used Marlee Matlin so she couln't hear how crazy the script was.
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Yes, off course, but this doesn't mean there are dozens of clones in all the possible places when you aren't aware of them, right? [...] but if an object can be at several possible places in theory (since you aren't aware of where it really is), then in practice it's still just at one place... it's not secretly organizing the split second you're looking.
Welcome to the wild weird world of Quantum Mechanics!!! This is EXACTLY what it means. There are many theories to explain this, one of the most popular is the "Multiple Universe" interpretation which states that every decision we make creates another universe where every decision is made. So if you say "yes" instead of "no", there is another universe where you said "no" instead of "yes".
Another not so popular explanation is the Bohm interpretaion which talks of Hidden Variables and the idea that there is some order and determanancy to the whole process, but we just can't see it yet. This idea was refuted by the Bell Theorem -- though I never understood how-- and I think it's had some revisions in the past decades because of this.
While we have no experiements to verify the Multiple Universe nor the Bohm interpretation of QM, the idea that a particle is undefined until "the split second" you look at it is very well tested in Quantum Mechanics. The famous "One Photon Interference" experiment goes something like this: when light passes through slits, it forms an interference pattern on the other end. This pattern is a result of one lightwave interfering with another light wave (much like dropping two pebbles in water or the sound from two disjoint speakers). Now here is the weird part... we can actually fire ONE PHOTON, ONE PARTICLE OF LIGHT into the same slits... we can fire it at the center slit for example so that it doesn't touch the left and right one and see what comes out the other end... AND WE STILL GET INTERFERENCE! The explanation is that until we measure the interference pattern on the other end, the photon actually went through every slit, not just the center one, and interfered with itself. If you try to determine which slit it went through, by trying to measure it AT the slit, then the collapse occurs at that moment and there is no interference.
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Re: Scientists claim to have broken speed of light
[Re: fastlane69]
#149587
09/04/07 18:39
09/04/07 18:39
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Joined: Sep 2002
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PHeMoX
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Quote:
Welcome to the wild weird world of Quantum Mechanics!!! This is EXACTLY what it means. There are many theories to explain this, one of the most popular is the "Multiple Universe" interpretation which states that every decision we make creates another universe where every decision is made. So if you say "yes" instead of "no", there is another universe where you said "no" instead of "yes".
Okey, interesting stuff hahaha. Do you have any books that you would recommend reading on this?
Cheers
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