Hilbert's Hotel

Diskussionsforum zur Unendlichkeit: Theismus, Atheismus, Primzahlen, Unsterblichkeit, das Universum...
Discussing Infinity: theism and atheism, prime numbers, immortality, cosmology, philosophy...

Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Executing Trades on Next Bar Open
by Zheka. 06/20/24 14:26
Lapsa's very own thread
by rki. 06/19/24 11:27
A simple game ...
by VoroneTZ. 06/18/24 10:50
Face player all the time ...
by bbn1982. 06/18/24 10:25
Zorro Beta 2.61: PyTorch
by jcl. 06/10/24 14:42
New FXCM FIX Plugin
by flink. 06/04/24 07:30
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Bible Game
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (AndrewAMD, degenerate_762), 1,213 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mino, squik, AemStones, LucasJoshua, Baklazhan
19061 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Superstring Theory [Re: fastlane69] #160408
10/16/07 16:21
10/16/07 16:21
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 952
Cologne
padrino Offline OP
User
padrino  Offline OP
User

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 952
Cologne
Quote:

There are maybe 5 people in the world who claim to understand string theory...
... and 4 of them are lying.




who's the one?

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: padrino] #160409
10/17/07 02:58
10/17/07 02:58
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
It's a joke, Padrino. Point is the SS theory is terribly complex and poorly understood even by the smartest people on earth.

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: fastlane69] #160410
10/17/07 08:13
10/17/07 08:13
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
As long as that doesn't become an argument on itself to waive away critics I do not see why it would be a big deal whether or not a theory is terribly complex. There are plenty of other theories that require a really good understanding of the mathematics, physics and theory behind it to really be able to comprehend them. I think the only thing really making this 'more' complex if you like is the fact that it tries to merge theories of different scientific disciplines. It's not a surprise that this isn't exactly easy to do. Somehow the almost mythical character this theory gets slapped on is misplaced in my opinion,

(btw. this is just a general rant)

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Superstring Theory [Re: PHeMoX] #160411
10/17/07 16:43
10/17/07 16:43
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
It's more than that Phemox.

Yes it's complex and you are right, there are plenty of complex theories out there. The problem is that it's complex and (so far) UNTESTABLE. Hence, it becomes an exercise in mathematcal wordplay which may be beautiful and may seem true to the theorists but science does not hinge on mathematics (it doesn't!)... it hinges on experiments.

So without experiments that can test 11 dimensions vs. 22 vs. 54843, the theory is complex and, well, useless. The day we can test this theory is the day that it will become more valid in the eyes of scientists... but heck, we are BARELY now starting to test for the Higgs Particle, a lynchpin of the Standard Model of Particle Physics that has been around for nearly 50 years, so I have no illusions that we will be able to test SS theory any time soon.

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: fastlane69] #160412
10/17/07 16:49
10/17/07 16:49
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Aah, right, I totally forgot about the fact that it's an untestable theory (so far). Okey, yeah, then it's a whole different story,

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Superstring Theory [Re: PHeMoX] #160413
10/17/07 18:32
10/17/07 18:32
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 952
Cologne
padrino Offline OP
User
padrino  Offline OP
User

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 952
Cologne
'Til now it is just philosophy, and I doubt it will ever become more than that. As far as I see it, Brian Greene is wasting his time on something that - like fastlane mentioned - we won't be able to test in our lifetime.
Thing about Superstring Theory is also that so far it isn't able to make any predictions that could give the slidest proof of string theory being correct. Don't forget, we didn't test general relativity through experiments. It just made some predictions about the world surrounding us that happen to be considerable accurate. Therefore we assume that Einstein was right - he doesn't have to be, since we know that either general relativity or quantum mechanics have to be at least a little bit wrong - though we can't actually see the warps and ripples suspected by general relativity.

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: padrino] #160414
10/17/07 20:34
10/17/07 20:34
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
Quote:

Don't forget, we didn't test general relativity through experiments.




WHOA! Oh yes we did! Einstein was considered a crackpot and his theory completely ignored until Sir Arther Eddignton did a test of the bending of light after an eclipse and the bending was in complete accordance to the theory.

Quote:

Therefore we assume that Einstein was right




But he is right... in the realms that his theoy is valid. That we may need to add to the theory to make it compatable with QM doesn't make it wrong, merely incomplete.

Quote:

As far as I see it, Brian Greene is wasting his time on something that




I disagree. Like Einstein, several theories started off as purely mathematical artifacts until tested. It will be through Greene's and others works that we can finally get to a stage where we might be able to test it. At that stage, SS may be proven right OR wrong. And even if wrong, it will have at least excluded that line of thought from Grand Unified Theories. Not a waste of time, but not worthy of complete belief right now either!!!

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: fastlane69] #160415
10/18/07 02:13
10/18/07 02:13
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777 Offline
Expert
NITRO777  Offline
Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
Quote:



But he is right... in the realms that his theoy is valid. That we may need to add to the theory to make it compatable with QM doesn't make it wrong, merely incomplete.


Enter Hawkings and the *theory of everything* which attempts to unify the two.

As for superstring theory, there actually are classes at MIT which use this freely available book as text if anyone wants to give it a try...;)

web page It even has a solutions manual.
I myself only have a vague idea of what it is.

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: NITRO777] #160416
10/18/07 14:35
10/18/07 14:35
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
When I was at Oxford, England for a few months, I took a String theory class (not even Super STrings). From day one, it was about soliving imaginary integrals and hardcore math. There really wasn't any "physics" that I could ascertain. Now mind you, I never was a stellar physicist and this is a hardcore class, but I was still impressed by the fact that the class started with math and that it was up to us to "deceipher" the physics behind it.

We did not use Greene's book but another textbook and this was 8 years ago. Perhaps things have gotten better, perhaps the textbooks have gotten better, I don't know. But I do know that Strings are our best hope for GUT and yet ironically the worst hope for experimentation.

Re: Superstring Theory [Re: padrino] #160417
10/19/07 17:32
10/19/07 17:32
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
A
AlbertoT Offline
Serious User
AlbertoT  Offline
Serious User
A

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
Quote:

'Til now it is just philosophy, and I doubt it will ever become more than that. As far as I see it, Brian Greene is wasting his time ...




Well, do not exagerate
Brian Greene is not a lonely wolf, the direct opposite
The string theory is , nowadays, the most popular theory in the scientific comunity
I dont suppose that are all dreamers

This theory can exactly predict all the features of all the known particles.
It is hard to beleive that it is just by chance

Also I dont' see why you keep claiming that it wont be tested in a lifetime

The string theory predict the existance of new particles in a band of energy which is accessible to the new particle accelerator at CERN

Should the new particle accelerator find these particles and these particles only than the string theory is , likely, true
On the other hand if the particle accelerator does not find these particles or it finds them but along with other particles which are not prdicted by the theory than the string theory is , for sure, just a math trick

Be patient

P.S.

For those who are interested there are two other great books on the string theory written for a vast audience by famous scientists

"Warped passages" by Lisa Randall
"Tha cosmic Landscape " by Leonard Susskind



Last edited by AlbertoT; 10/19/07 17:43.
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  jcl, Lukas, old_bill, Spirit 

Kompaktes W�rterbuch des UnendlichenCompact Dictionary of the Infinite


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1