Does anyone know if there is a good pc game that is more trade simulator and less shoot 'em up -something like the casual game "Tradewinds" but more substantial. Build trade routes, fighting off the occasional pirate or intrigue is ok but I get tired of games that are all hack and slash.

X2, X3:reunion -> Excel-style trade in beautiful 3d space. build ships, factories, stations etc. to create a strong economy. there is no real need for fights if you don't want to, except if you are on the pirate's list.

X3 is a tad too complicated, especially in the beginning... it takes ages before you're getting somewhere in terms of profits and the ability to spend some money on big things like factories and extra ships and so on ... it does look absolutely awesome and is great fun to play, but by far I appreciate Hardw[a]r (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardwar ) much much more. It's an old game, so don't expect too much from the graphics, they're pretty dated..

Still, the trading stuff is simple and although it has less options than you would have in X3, there's still more than enough content to keep you busy for ages. Upgrade weapons, buy ships, buy homes, factories and so on... all possible.

Lol, a little "disclaimer" though, I'm a real diehard Hardw[a]r fan... it's one of those games that you either love or hate, a bit like the X series... But if you don't care thát much about graphics or do not have the latest PC hardware I would really recommend Hardw[a]r (which is 'abandonware' now btw).

Cheers

bupaje: If you are interested in X2 and willing to pay shipping I could send it your way.

x2 and x3 are worth less that $10 nowadays... amazon.com

Thanks for the advice. I actually had picked up X3 reunion in the bargain bin but found it too complicated for the way I play - an hour here and there. Seems like a heck to learn and I don't have enough time. I know Age of Empires and Civ had some trading but the game play balance is mainly on the battle. Thanks for the Hardwar suggestion I'll check it out.

For the game dev's looking for a game to develop then I suggest it -look at Tradewinds and maybe a souped up 3d version for older guys like me who are tired of war.

why dont you use ELV?

ELV?