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Re: Modo 301
[Re: ventilator]
#184693
02/20/08 19:13
02/20/08 19:13
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
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Quote:
in modo the advantage is that the sculpting data is decoupled from the geometry.
But that is not the case. IMAGE based sculpting is decoupled from the geometry, but MESH based sculpting is NOT decoupled from the geometry at all. When I do mesh based sculpting I am affecting the actual geometry, do not need an image map or even a UV map, only the geometry. The model can be exported as is.
When I do image based sculpting you need both an image to paint on and a UV map. The sculpting does not affect the actual geometry (i.e. remove the image map and the model "reverts" to what it was before) but affects micro-polys instead.
Quote:
image based sculpting affects the tesselated subdivision surface geometry (and micro polygons when using the renderer).
Actually, image based model affects what are called OpenGL Polygons in the real-time view port. This is why modo gives you an OpenGL poly count in the lower right of the view.
Quote:
What about the exporters plug ? Someone is using it to make some games ?
There are a few scripts out there that may allow you to export to other formats, but modo already exports to OBJ and FBX.
Many people are using it for games and many professional game studios use modo as well.
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Re: Modo 301
[Re: ventilator]
#184695
02/20/08 20:32
02/20/08 20:32
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
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Quote:
opengl polygons how luxology calls them is what i meant with subdivision surface geometry. opengl polygons isn't a commonly used term for this.
If we are going to talk modo, then use the terminology that Luxology uses. They make a difference between OpenGL polys in real-time rendering and micro-polys when rendering. So I do as well.
Quote:
it's just that in modo image based sculpting is the main sculpting feature and what i refer to when i say modo sculpting. mesh based sculpting in modo isn't performant enough for high detail and it's nothing special at all.
In a previous post you state that you know sculpting in modo, but the above quote shows that you do not really understand why Luxology created both mesh based and image based sculpting. Firstly, you call mesh based sculpting in modo "nothing special at all" and indicate that it does not perform well. This means you don't understand the two sculpting methods as Luxology intends for them to be used. Therefore, I will attempt to help you out  .
As stated previously, mesh based sculpting IS NOT for fine details. It is definitely for broad or large details. Image based sculpting is the opposite. It is definitely for fine details and NOT for large or broad details. If you create a large brush to sculpt with and go to image based sculpting, you will find that image based sculpting is slow ... so slow that, in many cases, it is unusable. However, switch to a small brush and you can paint fine details with no problems.
Now, if you switch to mesh based sculpting and create a large brush, you can zoom along and make changes (via sculpting) to your geometry with no problems. If you were to make the brush small, though, then you run into problems. The first problem is that, since mesh based sculpting modifies geometry, it will require a lot of geometry to make fine details. This means you would have to keep sub-dividing the model to create the needed geometry and this would cause modo to come to a virtual stand-still (depending on the number of polys, of course).
For these reasons, Luxology created two base forms of sculpting: mesh and image. Mesh based sculpting is for medium to large sculpts on the mesh itself. Image based sculpting is for small or fine details to be sculpted on micro-polys/OpenGL polys.
If you read the Luxology information on sculpting or, more importantly, watch the sculpting tutorials on LuxologyTV, then you will see that this is exactly how they recommend you work in modo when sculpting. Here are some examples from LuxologyTV:
http://www.luxology.com/training/video.aspx?id=115
http://www.luxology.com/training/video.aspx?id=114
The initial changes to the mesh where made with mesh based sculpting. The fine details were added via image based sculpting. The broad details would have been slow to do with image based sculpting, but turn out to be quite easy with mesh based sculpting. This is the modo method of sculpting.
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Re: Modo 301
[Re: ventilator]
#184697
02/20/08 21:08
02/20/08 21:08
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
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I didn't waste my time. You were not clear and, as is obvious from your previous posts, did not know what you were talking about. You started by saying this: Quote:
the sculpting performance is about the same for me but modo sculpting works a bit differently. it's image based and during sculpting you can enable a bump mapping shader so it looks as if you are working with more polygons than there actually are.
This is not completely true. Modo has BOTH image AND mesh-based sculpting. So I corrected you. Instead of accepting the correction, you stated the following:
Quote:
i know how sculpting works in modo.
As if to say, "You don't need to tell me anything because I already know it." But then you go on to say:
Quote:
in modo the advantage is that the sculpting data is decoupled from the geometry.
Again, this was not correct (only only partially correct). Only IMAGE based sculpting is decoupled from the mesh. Mesh based is not. So I corrected you again. When corrected, you state the following:
Quote:
it's just that in modo image based sculpting is the main sculpting feature and what i refer to when i say modo sculpting. mesh based sculpting in modo isn't performant enough for high detail and it's nothing special at all.
Again, this is not correct. Image based sculpting IS NOT the main sculpting feature and that is NOT what you should be referring to when you say "sculpting" when talking about modo. When the term "sculpting" is used in reference to modo, then it is referring to BOTH image and mesh based sculpting (see the links in my previous post). Mesh based sculpting would only refer to mesh based sculpting and image based sculpting would only refer to image based sculpting. So you were trying to save face and back peddle by attempting to say you only meant image based sculpting and that is the "main" feature when, in fact, it is not. BOTH are needed to properly sculpt a model in modo. So, I corrected you yet again. Again, instead of accepting the correction you attempt to try to blame me and then to claim I did not understand what you wrote.
The real problem is I did understand what you wrote, what you wrote was not correct, I corrected you and, frankly, you did not like it. However, I wanted the original poster to get a decent idea of what modo sculpting is like and not to go by your erroneous information.
I provided evidence from Luxology on how sculpting in modo is to be done. You simply got offended and tried to shift the blame.
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