i'm sure you can understand if i feel the same about you

an important point i missed is that a7's physics probably have nothing on u3's, but besides that u3's advantages are mostly its brilliant tool-set and hence optimised workflow.

but to compare a7 with quake2 is just looking for an argument. its visual capabilities are far beyond what you think, and i see tons of ps3 and xbox360 games that look ridiculously good thanks only to good art and some nice (but fairly simple) shaders that can fairly straight-forwardly be done in a7.

for most people the tool-set is the biggest selling point for an engine-package, and a7's is not on par with most other engine-packages. but the engine itself (which was the original question, hence joey's brief clarification) is on par with modern standards (though this is subjective, depending on your priorities).

julz