Hello everyone , well here is the thread, this thread is for debating evolution vs intelligent design/creationism , I urge anyone interested in the topic to post your thoughts and opinions , so this doesnt just boil down to me vs fastlane, so anyone with an opinion post it , we are all equally intelligent and everyone's opinions are worth as much as the next.

I will post a lot of stuff from the previous lhc thread , since it deviated completely from the lhc to evolution discussion , well lets get started.

So to begin , let's see what the theory of evolution states.
Evolution states , that organisms can change/evolve over time through the process of natural selection. This itself , makes sense , however , scientists have taken this idea much much further , stating that all life on planet earth evolved from 1 single cell organism over billions of years. It is thought , after the big bang , after earth was created , there was a big ocean of water/elements , and over millions of years , some elements somehow binded together , to form the first living cell. This cell then , replicated itself , and over miliions and millions of years , evolved , into a very simple living organism, and over millions and millions of years , this organism evolved into others , and this chain continued until today , forming all life on planet earth. Thats the basics of evolution, now I will post all the MASSIVE and HUGE problems with this theory.

#1: Atoms DO NOT bind themselves.

They state "somehow"(yes , they avoid the question because they cannot answer it) , billions of years ago , either through lightning , or some other form of process , or through chance , this atoms binded , creating the first living cell. This is absurd , today , with all of our vast knowledge , technology , and understanding of the world , CANNOT create a living cell or living anything from scratch. We know the composition of cells , but even if we put the chemicals required together ,there is no life , there is no binding , and much less replicating. We have the technology to replicate any type of environment they could think the earth must have been like , but , even though numerous tests and experiments , they have failed and cannot do it. Now , if the first living cell just binded out of chance , then it should mean that we should fairly easily be able to reproduce it today , but we CANNOT do it , because it's not that simple a process , and since we today cannot understand it , and probably wont for a long time to come, if ever , it's because it is a process too complicated for us to understand , so how could such a complicated and impossible to replicate(as of today) process happen all on it's own by chance ?

#2: Excruciatingly detailed and complicated design EVERYWHERE.

The very complicated design of our universe , world , and life on earth , is not something that matches a theory of chaos and chance. There is a very clear design of everything , from the stars to our cells , and it's not simple , basic design , it's very very very very complicated. The human being isn't something could have come about by chance , there is a very strict set of guidelines we follow , It is very obvious we were created to take advance to all of the properties of our existence , we have eyes to see , ears to hear , nose to smell , and nerves to sense touch , and a brain that handles all of this things for automatically so we dont have to worry about any of them , they are all done for us , all we have to do is enjoy our being, does this harmonic design look like something that could have evolved out of chance ? Or does it make more sense that we were created , in a way , that we would not have to bother with all of our internal systems , we have a subconcious that runs the machine for us. The complexity of our lives , our cells , that were once thought to be very simple have turned out to be extremely complicated systems which follow strict rules according to DNA. DNA is the code which tells all cells what to do , what they are , and how to behave, does this system appear to be a system that just created itself ? See , through science we have learned that our very existence is governed by rules , and when we got down to the smallest part that we could (our cells) , we discovered DNA , a code that TELLS the cells exactly what to do , our cells follow rules and orders from our internal code to do their functions , so , who created this code ? Oh yeah , it created itself right , somehow , that first cell billions of years ago , found a way to replicate itself , and created a system to tell it's daughter cell what to do , it created the DNA system , or did this first cell already have DNA ? Does this make sense to you ? Well this is what they teach. We can go deep into the complexity of our design , from cells to systems like our eyes and organs , but I would be too long a post , so at the end of the post I will put some links to some movies which explain in more detail our INSANELY complicated system that runs itself for us to be here.

#3: Timeline

The evolution timeline doesn't match or make sense , and in fact , contradicts evolution. They state life evolved over billions of years , to be plentiful , HOWEVER , they also state that 65 million years ago , a comet or meteor or asteroid hit earth , killing the dinasours and most of earth's life , it is believed very very small amounts of life remained , with bacteria and maybe some plants and the like. Ok , so , we are now talking about all of the life we have now evolving over a period of 65 million years. Here is a timeline of evolution from wiki
The basic timeline is a 4.6 billion year old Earth, with (very approximately):

* 4 billion years of simple cells (prokaryotes),
* 3 billion years of photosynthesis,
* 2 billion years of complex cells (eukaryotes),
* 1 billion years of multicellular life,
* 600 million years of simple animals,
* 570 million years of arthropods (ancestors of insects, arachnids and crustaceans)
* 550 million years of complex animals
* 500 million years of fish and proto-amphibians,
* 475 million years of land plants,
* 400 million years of insects and seeds,
* 360 million years of amphibians,
* 300 million years of reptiles,
* 200 million years of mammals,
* 150 million years of birds,
* 130 million years of flowers,
* 65 million years since the non-avian dinosaurs died out,
* 200,000 years since humans started looking like they do today.

Wait wait wait , so the meteor ONLY killed the dinasours ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So all other forms of life overcame the meteor , only dinasours suffered the consequenses ? From my understand it killed basically everything , or was this the ice age theory ? Man , you scientists keep changing your theories around , but in any case , anything that was harsh enough to extinct the dinasours would have killed anything else alive in the planet , with the exeption of maybe some plants and bacteria. So considering the time for our current animals and ouruselfes to have evolved is set in the millions (around 25 million for a whale) , it is IMPOSSIBLE for all life to have RE-evolved in 65 million years.

#4 Transitional fossils

This is one massive blow to evolution , WHERE ARE THE FOSSILS ? We find NO RECORD of evolution actually happening. There are no bones of any transitions , every single animal alive today , should have thousands or millions of evolutionary stages , yet , we have ZERO record of any of these , NOT ONE fossil , nothing , there is no actual evidence of this actually every happening. How could we be so sure of evolution we teach it in school to children ( we are all taught we are decendants of apes , increadible), when we have NO RECORD of it EVER happening , we MUST have found something by now , they've been searching for the missing link since the theory was made , and to this day ,ZERO , NOTHING , talk about blindly believing something.

#5: Plants

If you believe evolution , then , plants and humans are actually related , and both living organisms actually come from a common ancestor. Really ? Why would this living organism make such a DRASTIC change , from animal to plant , or plant to animal and , on top of that , eventually , evolution to the point where planlife is massively abundant , and there are even trees which give fruit, which , how convinient , we can eat , again chance ? Because this fruits could be anything , yet , there is enough variety of fruits and vegetables in the world for us to not ever have to eat meat if we chose not to. Is this coincidence too ? How about the fact that fruits (nature's nutricious candy for us) are basically the right size for us , and have the right amount of nutrients for us , oh yeah , all of this is pure luck and chance right ? Why havn't plants evolved to walk and look for water and sunlight ? They've been here just as long as anything else , why dont they move ? Even bacteria moves, so this again , contradicts evolution. Plantlife differs so much from is, it is downright insane to day us and them have a common ancestor , but , that is exactly what evolution says , even though it doesn't make any sense.

#5: Aquatic life

This is just like the plant problem , how and why would this happen ? Why would land or water organisms go to the other ? It is believed the first organism was in water , so it would be safe to assume aquatic life must have started first , but , what in the world would cause this lifeform to go to earth ? Here is another problem , it takes MILIIONS of years for organisms to evolve , if an aquatic organism life say a fish got on land , it would die, thats where it ends , it doesnt have a million years to evolve , if it cant breathe it dies. Here is the proposed evolution of a whale

If you look at the graph , thats roughly 25 million years from one to the other. But , animals dont have that time , PHemox argued "Seriously, natural selection happens because of their habitat, food supply, natural enemies and whether or not you can adapt to changes" , Yes , but thats a BIG LIE , when animals can no longer support themselves on current food supply , they die. We have the problem of global warming , polar bears are suffering from ice melting too fast , polar bears are soon going to be facing extinction , no evolution , or are you saying polar bears are going to evolve in pelicans and fly to florida ? Well this is exactly what evolution would say, the problem is , how are polar bears going to survive 20 million years to evolve ? They will die and become extinct , thats the most obvious and logical outcome.


#6 Eggs

Here's other strange facts which put evolution in question , as there is no reason for them yet they are.

Why do chickens lay eggs ? What could have possibly cause chickens to lay eggs ? Changes in environment ? Really ? Fish lay eggs too , and many other animals do , but why ? It's such a drastic change and for no reason , what could have cause animals to change from laying eggs to not or the other ? Considering this change would have taken , millions of years , there must have been a very good reason for it , but there is no explanation to this. In fact , since we technically evolved from bacteria , and bacteria just replicates itself through cell division, what would have caused this system to change to organisms mating and then either laying eggs or birthing a baby ? Seems like a pain of a system next to just duplicating yourself , which is a much faster and efficient way to spread yourself.

Well I think this post has gotten big enough ,and I havnt even touched the big bang , so I'm going to stop it here. Again , I encourage everyone interested to post their opinions on the subject , here is the link to a good video that shows how complex the workings of a cell are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31cRVrKbfSE&feature=related

Do take the time to see the video , then ask yourself , does all of this look like something that could have created itself from nothing out of chance ? And thats a cell , scientists say THE UNIVERSE itself was created by chance and from nothing, now thats 100% true and pure insanity.

Oh yeah , and fastlane , post coherent explanations to the problems I posted with evolution , not just "well we scientists only go on facts and when we dont know something we just ignore it and don't comment , so , I don't know , but evolution and the big bang are true because science books say they are" . LOL

Oh yeah , and lets not forget , not long ago A lot of scientists believed in the steady state theory , which taught the universe always existed , until through experiments and scientific discovery , they found out one thing , the universe HAS NOT always existed , it was in fact , CREATED. however , Scientists refute God with all their mighty will , so , they decided , the bing bang , something exploted ,what exploded ? Well , a bean ? Smaller than an atom ? With 4 forces ? But IMMENSLY POWERFULL , the ALL POWERFULL MIGHTY BEAN , and where did it come from ? It must have always existed , we guess , so this bean exploded (remember , smaller than an atom) and created all the billions of stars and billions of galaxies. Really ? I see. So scientists (the smart ones as they believe themselves to be) belive the universe was created by an ever existing all powerful bean , and not the all powerful God , because it is impossible for God to exist , but of course , an ever existing bean smaller than an atom that exploded with enough energy to create the entire universe , that , makes perfect sense. This is what they teach children , something that makes ZERO sense , oh yeah , and lets not forget , sicentists also say "MATTER CANNOT BE CREATED" , of course , unless a powerfull mighty bean explodes in nothingness , then matter and stars and water and planets and everything else will create itself, fantastic , very enlightening.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHA
LMFAOROTFL

So what did scientists learn about the universe ?
That it was CREATED.
Now if you wanna believe a bean created it , well thats on you , but science has not proved what created it , they have only discovered it was created , I believe by God , they believe by a bean , you tell me who makes more sense ?