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Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: DJBMASTER] #217060
07/21/08 05:09
07/21/08 05:09
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
xXxGuitar511 Offline
Expert
xXxGuitar511  Offline
Expert

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
...looks interesting. I'm downloading the demo + SDK for a testrun


xXxGuitar511
- Programmer
Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: DJBMASTER] #217062
07/21/08 05:32
07/21/08 05:32
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 53
New Jersey, USA
J
jimc74 Offline
Junior Member
jimc74  Offline
Junior Member
J

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 53
New Jersey, USA
Yes, I saw Legion, and couldn't believe how good it looked.
I am hoping someday 3dgamestudio will look like that.
I am hoping for a better dynamic shadow system, and, like you,
a better terrain system. And WED takes some time getting used to,
but it doesn't bother me that much. 3Dgamestuio is
my engine of choice for many reasons.

Also, Truevision looks amazing, and what about the C4 engine?

@DJBMASTER : Neoaxis looks great, but am I not mistaken and
you need to spend $500 to get the world editor?
(If that is the case, I would just program directly
into OGRE).
But Neoaxis looks awesome too.

Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: jimc74] #217065
07/21/08 05:52
07/21/08 05:52
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
It always depends on your project.

If you want to make 2d games then TGB will be the best bet.

If you are into 3d games then it depends. Outdoor can be made very well in Torque. Best optimized indoors run in C4.

If you need the best lighting options then C4 is the best choice. Torque offers some good static shadow options just like Irrlicht.

If you wanto to do easy coding and you understand C++ well then Irrlicht is a great choice and comes with a nice editor, radiosity lighting and is very easy to use (the editor is intuitive, the documentation and C++ samples are very easy to understand). But just like Gamestudio it is not optimized to run bigger levels.

If you like easy scripting then Gamestudio is a good choice. The renderer is slow compared to other engines but for small scaled projects it can be sufficient.

If you really look for a challenge then C4 is the best option. You have to master C++ first (with all the tricks like template classes, virtual abstract classes and similar). But then you get best scene-management, optimized rendering, built-in latest shaders and good tools.

Neoaxis is very interesting. Offers tons of good features. But shadows are weak (Ogre shadows are slow). And documentation is almost zero.
But I am sure it can become a competitive product very soon.

Ogre itself is a good renderer but has no tools and does only rendering.

TGEA is still unfinished but is quite powerful. Scripting works fine there. But changing the engine code is more complicated than in other engines. It offers some good options in shadowing but is very limited if you mix meshes and blocks, static and dynamic shadows.

As you can see: Every tool has some drawbacks. I like C4 the most because it is simply the best optimized and modern one. But it is definitely not a beginners toy.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: Machinery_Frank] #217070
07/21/08 06:58
07/21/08 06:58
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
xXxGuitar511 Offline
Expert
xXxGuitar511  Offline
Expert

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
NeoAxis has a decent renderer, but as said, it's shadowmapping shader sucks...

I'm still trying to figure it all out, but I can already say I do not like the scripting at all...


xXxGuitar511
- Programmer
Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: xXxGuitar511] #217103
07/21/08 12:07
07/21/08 12:07
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,143
United Kingdom
DJBMASTER Offline
Serious User
DJBMASTER  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,143
United Kingdom
I have no idea where to start with neoaxis, i'm not used to implementing engines into a language. I prefer the engine to have its own scripting language and hide alot of the rendering functions from the user. I know this is a limitation for some of you advanced programmers but for me it feels confortable.

I opened visual studio with the neoaxis engine. Just one look at the number of files and i ran, lol.

But i guess i'll have to learn if i'm to use a "professional" engine in my career.

The C4 engine does look very good although i don't like it's node editing approach. The lighting is what attracts me the most. Seems lighting makes or breaks an engine.

Just my thoughts...

Last edited by DJBMASTER; 07/21/08 12:11.
Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: DJBMASTER] #217111
07/21/08 12:39
07/21/08 12:39
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Originally Posted By: DJBMASTER
The C4 engine does look very good although i don't like it's node editing approach.


If you look further into some other engines then you will realize that almost all of them work with nodes (C4, Ogre, Irrlicht and more). Nodes have many advantages. The simple Ogre beginner tutorials explain them quite good (moving or rotating a complete node with sub-nodes or scene-management).

And it can be helpful in editors as well (similar to the groups in WED).


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: Machinery_Frank] #217124
07/21/08 13:34
07/21/08 13:34
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline
Expert
Slin  Offline
Expert

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Irrlicht is nice but the renderer really seems slower than A7. I can´t really comment on the other but I am currently checking out Horde3D which they call a "next generation graphics engine". It seems to be very fast, it is completely based on shaders and it already comes with some really nice softshadows. There is also a level editor.
The question is just what you want. Do you want a game engine or do you want to combine several libraries to your own game engine or do you want something else?
If you for example want to use Horde3D, you will need an OpenGl framework, collision detection (which could be done with a physicsengine like bullet), a gui and sound. It can be even more.
This is quite some work and you need a little programming knowledge, but I am sure that the result could be quite powerfull. Irrlicht is a bit bigger than Horde3D and for example offers basic collision detection, gui rendering, nodes and so on.

Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: Slin] #217152
07/21/08 18:14
07/21/08 18:14
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 230
london uk/ paris
S
sueds Offline
Member
sueds  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 230
london uk/ paris
irrilcht is slow ? It's the first time I heard somthing so strange ... Just try the raytracer demo and you'll see.

maybe if you look for a out of box engine leadwerks could be teh one you are looking for.

Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: sueds] #217156
07/21/08 18:52
07/21/08 18:52
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
The Irrlicht-renderer is indeed quite fast. But the real-time shadows are slow and big scenes can slow it down except you use those Quake-maps.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Middleware engine/ suites [Re: sueds] #217157
07/21/08 19:02
07/21/08 19:02
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,001
Pennsylvania, USA
FoxZero Offline OP
Serious User
FoxZero  Offline OP
Serious User

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,001
Pennsylvania, USA
Yes, the large levels is what turned me on to TGEA. Yes I do want great indoors as well, but most of the game is to take place out side, and I want to implement vehicular combat and possible long range sniper, so larger levels with more breathing room is a must.

The C4 engine looks nice, I'll try the demo for now.

Yes I understand a more advanced engine will be more difficult to use, but of course that's a step I'm willing to take for the sake of my game. Basically I want something that would allow my game to be considered next gen, large outdoor levels, modern lighting, and good physics, or if I have to se another physics engine I can do that.

I appreciate all the engine names you're giving me. It does help and I'm doing the research to make sure I get what I need, as obviously I know my game best. smile


Check out my site http://foxzero.net
My band's website
http://wolf-hybrid.net

R.I.P. Dave Williams
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