Hello people,

This is the first time I'm opening a thread in Hilbert's Hotel and I rarely post in here either mainly because I don't see a point in it. People come here with a set opinion in their mind and will defend it against people with a different one and that's that. I've yet to see anyone change their mind on something due to a Hilbert's Hotel argument, or even show the slightest effort of trying to.

Nevertheless, the thread about Dan changing views about Christianity gave me the urge to talk about something here.. Half the people in that thread are growing desperate about how gullible people can be, even in the 21st century, by buying all those dated stories that are written in the bible. I feel like they are sincerely trying to shake the other half to finally see beyond the lies and in turn live a better lies free life. On the other side, people like ChrisTodd took it upon themselves to honestly try to help a person like Dan who is appearing to be losing his faith and help him turn back before it is too late for him. Whichever side you are it can get a bit annoying of course and sometime this genuine help can be mutated into frustration and maybe even hatred. A Christian for example will follow Jesus example and try to put sense in the non-believer by saying "God loves you but if you turn your back on Him you will spend eternity in Hell and there's nothing to laugh about it because Hell is real!". Someone who doesn't believe in God and Hell however will simply find this sentence annoying, especially after hearing it for the 1000th time and it can be even more annoying that whatever arguments he uses Christians will always put God before reason and will stubbornly refuse to look any logic points that the non-believer will present them with.

IF YOU'RE IN A HURRY, IGNORE ALL THE ABOVE AND READ HERE FOR THE ACTUAL TOPIC RELATED THREAD. So, here's just a theory I have which may bring comfort to everyone, every time he or she will fail to make a friend or a stranger to see through his/her eyes. I have to say though that my theory may not work for the Christians since they believe that every other person will go to Hell if he doesn't believe in the Christian God, so it may be hard for them to see past that.. But I digress (i know, 'digress' is SO overused but I always wanted to say it once ).

So... By perfect world I mean that every person and all the different beliefs or political parties or the different cultures around the world, they're all useful. When it comes to nature, we don't find it hard to believe that every different organism is useful to something, even annoying pests and bacteria or viruses. Somehow we do trust nature, but when it comes to human societies we become the world's greatest cynic creature. We see the corruption in politics, the violence in the streets, all the unnecessary wars, drug trafficking, child pornography and we always come up with a phrase like: "This world has gone downhill.." or "Humans have definitely f*cked it up.." or the all famous: "I don't want to bring a child to this world". However, what we seem to forget sometimes is that we, humans, are also a creation of Nature.. And yes, our brain which gives us the power to form our own decisions unlike most animals is the creation of Nature as well. So, when you think that a common trait for rats, grey squirrels, african dogs, lions, butterflies, baboons and Langurs is to eat their own young alive, it certainly puts child pornography into some perspective, doesn't it?

So now that I got you into my frame of mind I just wanted to make the point that if nature has 'evolved' (I'm sure I lost a lot of people by using this word but there's no other way to say it...) a society with both Christians and non-Christians, this means that both have a use in our society. Off the top of my head I could say that Christians may use the positive effects of their strong faith in their God to live a steady life and thus be more reliable than others. Also those rules that they force onto themselves may actually protect them sometimes. On the other hand, someone who doesn't have to live a certain way of life full of restrictions due to its beliefs will generally be more open-minded, and our society needs open-minded people to try new things and advance humanity further into the future.

So, all I want to say is, don't be so pissed off if someone cannot/doesn't want to share your point of view and also that at the end of the day it's not such a bad thing that he/she does not. In the case of Christians and non-Christians it doesn't even matter if the Christian God and Jesus are actually real or not; it just doesn't. Joozey said it best in Dan's thread that everyone should be an agnostic since no-one can actually prove or disprove the existence of a Creator but in our own little Perfect world, I'm glad everyone is not.

Cheers,
Aris