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Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: ventilator] #237127
11/18/08 13:17
11/18/08 13:17
Joined: Sep 2003
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FBL Offline
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This is almost like my homebrewn homepage system works.

I use ## instead of ### smile

Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: FBL] #237129
11/18/08 13:50
11/18/08 13:50
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658
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Tiles Offline
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Tiles

That's the user, not the software wink


The user has the choice to do different, a tool usually not smile


Nobody stops you from cleaning up the code when you are not satisfied.
When you want to stay at the save side you have to check your page for W3C anyways. No matter if hand coded or created by a tool. Firefox Web Developer Plugin is really great for that and a Must Have smile

It is in the end a thing of personal flavour if you want to code or to use a tool. And of course what you want to do. It simply doesn't make sense to learn html when you just want to publish a nearly blank page with two or thee pictures at it.


trueSpace 7.6, A7 commercial
Free gamegraphics, freewaregames http://www.reinerstilesets.de
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Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: Tiles] #237136
11/18/08 15:26
11/18/08 15:26
Joined: Jan 2008
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Blade280891 Offline
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For example when using dreamweaver it will normally use depreciated tags, as are a lot of tags used in dreamweaver (8)
Here are some tags that are depreciated but some WYSIWYG editors still apply.
http://www.highdots.com/css-editor/articles/css_equiv.html

Last edited by Blade28081991; 11/18/08 17:18.

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Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: Tiles] #237145
11/18/08 17:13
11/18/08 17:13
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FBL Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tiles

Nobody stops you from cleaning up the code when you are not satisfied.


Cleaning up crap code takes longer than writing it manually from ground on.

Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: FBL] #237158
11/18/08 17:51
11/18/08 17:51
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Tiles Offline
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Crap code is written by noobs and newbies. Not from the tools. There may be some need to fix here and there. But that are minor flaws that can be fixed very quick with running w3c validation and clean the flaws up. Which is ways faster than spending weeks to handcode the stuff.

The point is, most of the times a working code is good enough. No need for extra polishing just to catch the hand coders eyes. And Dreamweaver and Kompozer produces working code.

Last edited by Tiles; 11/18/08 17:53.

trueSpace 7.6, A7 commercial
Free gamegraphics, freewaregames http://www.reinerstilesets.de
Die Community rund um Spiele-Toolkits http://www.clickzone.de
Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: Tiles] #237160
11/18/08 17:54
11/18/08 17:54
Joined: Jan 2008
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Blade280891 Offline
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Quote:
Crap code is written by noobs and newbies.

Because they don't know any better? What is your point exactly?

And dreamweaver 8 produces invalid code that is depreciated. Not just HTML either.


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Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: Blade280891] #237167
11/18/08 18:42
11/18/08 18:42
Joined: Sep 2007
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Tiles Offline
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Would you, as a handcoder, leave that invalid parts in code? No? So where's the problem to fix the missing bits from Dreamweaver then? Turn on W3C validation, open the file in the editor part of Dreamweaver, and fix it message by message. Done.

My point is that even with invalid code parts i am ways faster to clean it up than to write the whole stuff from scratch.

And my point is that it makes no sense to learn html when you just want to make one or two non-professional hobby pages in your life wink

To fix a misunderstanding here. I have nothing against hand coding. But it is not the only valid way to reach the goal to create a webpage nowadays.


trueSpace 7.6, A7 commercial
Free gamegraphics, freewaregames http://www.reinerstilesets.de
Die Community rund um Spiele-Toolkits http://www.clickzone.de
Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: Tiles] #237172
11/18/08 19:05
11/18/08 19:05
Joined: Jan 2008
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Blade280891 Offline
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True, but back to my point, It is another skill that could help you in future life wink So why not learn it, its not hard or long to learn, just simple HTML might help you get a job somewhere.

Also if you hand code it, it gives you an opportunity to say that you did.


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And someone buy me roses, and someone burned the church"
Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: Tiles] #237243
11/19/08 07:36
11/19/08 07:36
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
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FBL Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tiles
Crap code is written by noobs and newbies. Not from the tools. There may be some need to fix here and there. But that are minor flaws that can be fixed very quick with running w3c validation and clean the flaws up. Which is ways faster than spending weeks to handcode the stuff.

The point is, most of the times a working code is good enough. No need for extra polishing just to catch the hand coders eyes. And Dreamweaver and Kompozer produces working code.


That's all wrong.
If a webpage is created, it has to be done PROPERLY. Many many many tools deliver pure HTML crap whoich displays differently on each browser.
It's the same with games and any other business.
Beleive me - people are indeed looking at the HTML code to see whether the page is done properly. When searching for someone they can pay for work, this is an easy check how "clean" soemone works. May sound weird, I know - but I've seen that.

As you said "There may be some need to fix here and there" - searching all these palces, going through each single file takes more time than doing it properly right away. Then you want to do an update using your wysiwyg and it removes all your changes again.
No way this is proper webdesign/workflow.

I dropped all those editors long ago and in fact got faster with development.

Re: Good web site creation software? [Re: FBL] #237244
11/19/08 07:48
11/19/08 07:48
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,875
broozar Offline
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broozar  Offline
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most html wysiwyg editors still create a mess of tables for design and placing purposes, which has mostly disadvandtages: massively increased file size, unhandy structuring, dependance on a certain font type and/or size to keep the layout, no barrier-free design and most probably extensive use of inline css, which makes it really hard to change things afterwards easily.

if you really want to save time, i'd recommend to write a nice skin for one of the open source CMS out there, my fav is websitebaker, because it only needs a single php page (with placeholders) as template skin, is rather small (~700kb) and easy to edit. or take something smaller, like easycms. i'd not start with the heavy weights joomla or typo3 right away.

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