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Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Machinery_Frank] #237544
11/20/08 16:06
11/20/08 16:06
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
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Dan Silverman  Offline
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Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
This may not be typical, but I had some problems installing the OS on my system. I had a 32-bit copy of XP (full edition) and the Vista Ultimate upgrade. Because Vista was an upgrade, I had to install XP first and then, once XP was running, install Vista from there. Because my system had 8 GB of RAM installed, XP simply would not install. It would get to a certain point and fail. I spent over a day trying to figure out what happened. I finally had to take out some memory until I had 2 GB (I had four 2GB dims) and then XP would install. So you may want to leave out some of your memory (if you get more than 3 GB) while initially installing XP.


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Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Machinery_Frank] #237545
11/20/08 16:13
11/20/08 16:13
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Machinery_Frank
ok, I did some research about memory usage, 32 and 64 bit. This is what I got:

32 bit Windows:
max 2 GB memory per task
max 4 GB memory per OS (some of them gets lost because of addressing the hardware)

64 bit Windows:
max 4 GB memory per task
max 128 GB memory per OS (theoretically it would be much much more)

This shows me that I need much more memory to use a 64 bit OS efficiently.
[..]
So it will only make a difference if I have more than 4 GB RAM in my PC.


Nope, it will still matter if you're multitasking. The assumption that you also need more memory to use a 64 bit OS is untrue. Programs demand memory, 64-bit handles it differently, but it won't need for example twice the amount of memory (addressing).

Also, note that not every 64bit edition of Vista actually really supports more than 4Gb.

Quote:
I also read that the 64-bit version of the game "Crysis" was not faster than 32-bit. They told that it actually was faster but the longer addressing slowed it down at the same time. So it was the same like 32-bit at the end.
And Crysis does not use more than 2 GB RAM (32 and 64-bit).


With 64-bit gaming, depending on the efforts of the developer, it will often improve the overall visual quality because of the higher detail, but naturally at a loss of performance. It'll obviously ask a bit more of your processors, but it's not a world a difference.

It's like running a game at insanely high settings with a top of the line graphics card, it might run 40fps... bĂșt look superb. Same game, lower graphics settings with a budget 3D card might run at over 60fps, but look horrible.

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: PHeMoX] #237550
11/20/08 16:33
11/20/08 16:33
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777 Offline
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NITRO777  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
Frank I dont know how much of a hurry your in but if I was you I would get the system you want then install xp, (provided you have a legal copy and not an oem.)

Then I would wait untill windows 7 comes out late 2009, 2010 and install that OS at that time.

The main reason is you will eventually want to upgrade to win 7 anyway, as it will be much better than vista, and you will be kicking yourself if you pay good money for vista when win 7 becomes available.

As far as your hardware goes, I would personally go with some NVIDIA SLI technology. Right now they have 3 core, even quad core video.

Here is the stuff you need to be SLI ready:

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone_ecosystem.html

I would go with (it is dual gpu)NVIDIA Geforce 9800 gx2
http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_9800gx2.html


but there are a lot of options out there; take your time and dont buy on impulse.

Id also go with a RAID

Last edited by TriNitroToluene; 11/20/08 16:34.
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: NITRO777] #237553
11/20/08 16:46
11/20/08 16:46
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
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Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Thanks for the comments. Waiting for Win7 is a good idea. But I heard it will take about a year from now.

Regarding SLI: I am afraid of it. Many game magazine reviews showed that it works only with special software. In most cases games use only one kernel of the card and so you get not advantage over a non-SLI single gpu solution. But it drains more power.
And if your game supports SLI then you get some micro-delays during rendering because of the synchronization of both cards.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Machinery_Frank] #237556
11/20/08 17:29
11/20/08 17:29
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Machinery_Frank
Regarding SLI: I am afraid of it. Many game magazine reviews showed that it works only with special software. In most cases games use only one kernel of the card and so you get not advantage over a non-SLI single gpu solution. But it drains more power.


Right... but those are the same magazines that even to this day are incredibly pessimistic about the Dual Core and Quad Core performance increase of the latest processors...

I really wouldn't put too much faith in what those magazines. There are practically always performance boosts... whether it's worth the money or not depends a lot on your budget also. smile

Just look at the PS3, the Xbox360 .. both already have multi-core processors in them for a good reason. All the multi-platform games will take advantage of multi-core PCs because they are designed around multi-core systems.

I'm thinking the next generation of consoles will also have dual or multi-core graphics cards.

Quote:
And if your game supports SLI then you get some micro-delays during rendering because of the synchronization of both cards.



Don't worry about that. smile You really won't notice this... it's a lot less than a split of a millisecond and it won't ruin the performance increase at all. The relevance of these delays is really near zero when it comes to the performance in practice.

You won't get twice the performance with two 3D cards in SLi, but you will get a considerable boost. Some think it's worth it, some think it's expensive,

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: PHeMoX] #237568
11/20/08 19:01
11/20/08 19:01
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
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Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Yes, it is expensive, but this is not my biggest concern. It will also consume much power and electricity became more expensive lately in this country.
Another problem is heating. I would like to have a quiet system. So I probably need some special cooling devices. But an expensive SLI card probably will not help in this matter.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Machinery_Frank] #237572
11/20/08 19:12
11/20/08 19:12
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,436
Germany, Luebeck
Xarthor Offline
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Xarthor  Offline
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@Frank:
What are you're concerns about Windows XP Pro 64-bit?
Its an 64-bit operating system and thus can adress more than 3 GB Ram.

Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Xarthor] #237598
11/20/08 21:06
11/20/08 21:06
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
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Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Xarthor: How are the 64-bit drivers for XP Pro 64?


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Machinery_Frank] #237603
11/20/08 21:32
11/20/08 21:32
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
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Dan Silverman  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Frank: I am running an SLI card and I have had no compatibility issues with it whatsoever. I am running a variety of 3D applications (modo, MAX, Silo), running games from the original Half-Life to UT3, running basic office applications like Word and Outlook, running GameStudio, browsers ... and nothing has so much as given me a hick-up.


Professional 2D, 3D and Real-Time 3D Content Creation:
HyperGraph Studios
Re: Hardware Question / New PC [Re: Dan Silverman] #237645
11/21/08 08:08
11/21/08 08:08
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline OP
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Machinery_Frank  Offline OP
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Thanks Dan: How about OpenGL? Many 3d applications are based on OpenGL. Does it run faster on SLI or just the same like a one-board graphic card of the same type?
I often read that software needs special optimization to use SLI efficiently.
And how about multi-monitor support? Actually I can imagine that multi-monitor and SLI should be a perfect symbiosis.


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