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TrueSpace VS Blender #268318
05/28/09 16:24
05/28/09 16:24
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 513
Carlos3DGS Offline OP
User
Carlos3DGS  Offline OP
User

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 513
I am looking for an alternative to MED. But I don't want to use expensive sowftware like Maya or 3dsMax.

The alternatives I have been sugested are blender and truespace.

Personally I don't like the interface for blender, but I have read in many webpages that there are compatibility issues with truespace.

Examples quoted from another web:

Quote:
This is true. if the UI for Blender were intuitive, then I would drop 2 of the 3 other products I have like a hot potato. But, I just cannot wrap my mind around it like the people who have had it since the beginning.

Quote:
And that's why I'm still using Blender

Hi. I know the title seems a little provocative.

trueSpace 7.51 is a wonderful, absolute amazing and a great tool.
So why do I use Blender then, though I have licensed trueSpace 7.51.

The reason is simple enough.

I can't export my work to something usable by either GameStudio A7
or Torque Advance which are among the most used game engines
for the indie game market.

Why are the game exporters removed? There used to be exporters
for both GameStudio and Torque. Using the old ones (tsx) in the model
does not work either... Why.. Because they are old and don't support
the formats (mdl is now mdl7 in gamestudio as an example)

I was around in early testing of ts7.0 and pointed out the need for
game exporters and they existed (at least GameStudio) during the
Beta. After have being away from trueSpace since, I updated to
latest ts7.51e and was very surprised to see that ts7.5 is still an
closed tool width lack of exporters.

It does not help me or anyone interested in game production that
trueSpace is a great tool when its not possible to export the work.

A good FBX exporter would solve the problem for most game engines,
but as you all know there is no such thing either.

Ok. I can export objects as OBJ or 3DS files and used other software to
get things together although that's a tedious work which also often
leads to errors because local differences in same file formats (even though
they should be the same, it seems that 3DS and others have dialects
that won't work together). OBJ seems to be the only reliable format.

But the worst thing of all ... trueSpace skeletons and animation tools
are soooo great, especially together with Mr Bones wonderful skeleton.
All this and there is no possibility to export any rigs or animations
( ... at least ...could we get a fbx exporter ).

So here I am.. building armatures and animations in Blender (which has
fbx, mdl7 and torque exporters) and the trueSpace desktop icon has since
long been move to 'unused desktop shortcuts' by Windows.

Is that not a shame?

I own one of the greatest tools and can't use it because my work
is not possible to get out of the system.

My hope is that anyone now gives a reply telling me that I am
a real looser which just don't know how to get the animated figures
from trueSpace to GameStudio A7 (which I'm currently using). That
would just be great to hear and I would not be offended at all

Please tell me that a 600$ tool can do what the free Blender can.

Cheers
Roland

(which still has hope .. )


Quote:
Hi again

Tested your suggestions

Blender
Collada import
OBJ import
BHV import
GameStudio MDL7 export
FBX export
+ Exports both MDL7 and FBX
- Have to do the skinning here
- Collada importer don't accept tS dae files

Note:
So far the best and cheapest solution

fragMotion
OBJ import
BHV import
GameStudio MDL7 exp
ort

+ Exports MDL7
- Have to do the skinning here

Note:
This works but is no better than using Blender
which is free.


Ultimate Unwrapper
Collada Import
GameStudio A7 export
FBX export
- Collada importer don't accept tS dae files

Note:
The Ultimate Unwrapper would have been great
as it would need no extra work. But as the collada
import fails this fails.


Thank's for your effort to help
and hopefully Caligari someday will give us fbx export or
a Collada export (includng animations) that will
be accepted by third party tools as Ultimate Unwrapper.


Cheers
Roland




I would like to know if this is true. And also what you guys think that are the pro's and con's of these two programs. I would like to know your personal opinions comparing these two programs and also another one I have heard about, "milkshape".

Last edited by Carlos3DGS; 05/28/09 16:27.

"The more you know, the more you realize how little you know..."

I <3 HORUS
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=401929&page=1
Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: Carlos3DGS] #268326
05/28/09 17:07
05/28/09 17:07
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,210
İstanbul, Turkey
Quad Offline
Senior Expert
Quad  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,210
İstanbul, Turkey
ultimate pro of the blender

there is a great blender script to export complete levels from blender, thanks to ventilator.


3333333333
Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: Carlos3DGS] #268348
05/28/09 19:42
05/28/09 19:42
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 103
C
christian Offline
Member
christian  Offline
Member
C

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 103
Blender is by far the most powerful complete application you can get until you start looking at Maya, Modo , Lightwave etc.
The main reason people do not use blender seems to be 1) the user interface and 2) it is not an industry standard.

Truespace has always had a reputation for bugs, and its future is now in question.

Milkshape and wings are very good stable modelers but are limited packages, your animation options may be limited.
Milkshape seems to be the most popular replacement for MED.

If you want to use truespace and you cannot export to Mdl you can use ultimate unwrap... it does a good job converting files even if you do not use it for skinning.

If you need to create cut scenes and cover art blender is your best choice.


A7 com core 2, 2gb ram, geforce 7600
Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: christian] #268416
05/29/09 06:33
05/29/09 06:33
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658
germany
Tiles Offline
User
Tiles  Offline
User

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658
germany
Quote:
If you need to create cut scenes and cover art blender is your best choice.


This can also be done in trueSpace.

The question for a beginner is not so much which is the most powerful software but which software is the one you are comfortable with. Download them both, try the beginner stuff and decide by yourself. Nobody can do that decision for you.

3D is pretty complex. It needs months to learn the basics, and you never stop learning. Once you know the basics you can have a second look which package gives you the needed power.


trueSpace 7.6, A7 commercial
Free gamegraphics, freewaregames http://www.reinerstilesets.de
Die Community rund um Spiele-Toolkits http://www.clickzone.de
Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: Tiles] #268438
05/29/09 08:46
05/29/09 08:46
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 290
Poland
LordMoggy Offline
Member
LordMoggy  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 290
Poland
I think that Conitec should buy Wings3d and use the .FBX importer and exporter which works for static models. But then build maybe from the ground up the animation core that we could use to export the .fbx as an animation model.(or maybe find a way to use med's animations core) And if it is not to much trouble include .dae import and export into wings3d with the same abilities as .fbx. Because Conitec loves to code maybe they can hire the key people from the wings team and join them with the team of med(which was once called "qoole" which they bought in the early years when they where trying to build a complete tool for 3d game development). They really should consider this, because making 3d games should never be a hard process. It should be a fun and enjoyable one, like when we play the games we make.

cheers

Moggy

ps. JCL If your reading this mate, please seriously think about this and discuss with your team and the wings team to see if this can be achieved anything is possible. It would really help the newbies to develop a game quickly and build from there. Once again thanks for any help you can provide to you loyal 3dgamestudio followers!

Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: LordMoggy] #268440
05/29/09 08:59
05/29/09 08:59
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 290
Poland
LordMoggy Offline
Member
LordMoggy  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 290
Poland
To answer your question i have looked at all programs read all about there features and still after years of research that i have done none are truely complete because of the file formats being incomplete or bug ridden. Even Maya and Max have bugs in the file formats! So until we have a solid cross platform file format nothing will ever be complete in the 3d gaming world. Unless you like pulling your hair out!!!

Personally i would wait for .fbx and .dae to mature into the best cross platform file formats.

But if you like pulling your hair out, and the women you date love sexy bald men then be my guest go for it! hahaha wink

Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: LordMoggy] #268461
05/29/09 10:41
05/29/09 10:41
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
Senior Expert
ventilator  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
open source programs can't really be bought. just use them and change them to your needs. smile a problem with wings3d is that it is written in erlang which is a very exotic programming language. the customizable blender 2.5 would be a much better fit for gamestudio but i don't think conitec is interested officially going with blender. WED and MED are the studio part of gamestudio and a selling point even if they are a bit crappy. smile replacing them with an open source solution would be a bit hard to market i guess.

Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: ventilator] #268467
05/29/09 11:01
05/29/09 11:01
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
Trier, Deutschland
Nowherebrain Offline
Serious User
Nowherebrain  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
Trier, Deutschland
Besides, I thoroughly believe that by learning blender now, you will save time later.

Often people remark that blender cannot compete with the "big dogs", this is just not true...in many, if not most, I find blender to be the superior and getting better constantly.


Everybody Poops.
here are some tutorials I made.
http://www.acknexturk.com/blender/
Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: Nowherebrain] #268475
05/29/09 11:54
05/29/09 11:54
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
I often found professional artists using Blender for certain tasks. So I read often in the Lightwave forum that they like to use Blender for animation. The same can be found in the Modo forum. And many like it for some features like a fluid simulation.

But still they often do not give their major tool up. They use both.

With all this in mind we also have to remember, that at least 50 percent, probably way more of these functionalities are not needed for creating game levels or models. You could do that in any other 3d software as well.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: TrueSpace VS Blender [Re: Machinery_Frank] #268493
05/29/09 16:30
05/29/09 16:30
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 567
Spain, Canary Islands
Felixsg Offline
User
Felixsg  Offline
User

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 567
Spain, Canary Islands
the new version of blender have interface improvements
the truespace was the first tool to direct manipulation
of the objects
but is dead, not more support for the exporter or anyelse

when the blender 2.5 will be ready I think blender gain more points

edit:
the link
http://www.blendernation.com/2009/05/28/blender25-tour-vi/

Last edited by Felixsg; 05/29/09 16:30.
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