i already said:
it has to be in one defiend style.. then it already looks professional. the rest is what it is...

I hate to be a wisecrack, but you're really wrong.



Professional doesn't at all implies that it has to be sold, in fact, it's not even a sign something is of professional quality. Just look at all the crap that people try to sell, but isn't of professional quality at all.

When something is of professional quality it simply means a certain quality standard has been reached or succeeded. It's perhaps on par with work that is being sold, but it's really not a requirement for something to be of professional quality for it to actually be sold. It's the difference between commercial and non-commercial things, that both can be of professional quality.

Selling something ís a requirement for something to be professional work, but again.. this wasn't about that. And then often still it would be best to describe it as commercial and not as professional. After all, wouldn't you agree that someone who does something for a living as his 'profession' and is by far not up to the common standard of his particular job, can still be considered non-professional or an amateur even though he does it for a living?



Again, it was about 'professional quality', not professional work and not about good art either.

I looked into a dictionary and professional has a lot of meanings:

First they define it as something you do as a profession. So Damocles is right, earning money will be the most important fact here.

Later follow some other meanings like: doing something in a competent or qualified way.

Most combinations of "professional" with other words tend to describe things conntected with a profession, so they are connected with earning money.

Yeah, but that's what I've been talking about all along. I'm already making that distinction.

We really are talking about a certain quality standard here, not about whether or not it's commercial.

so let me ask you a question, hypothetically, Let's say I'm a better programmer than bill gates. And let's say I live in my mothers basement and program, idk a simulation for how grass grow, maybe lets say at a molecular level. (dont know what that means but whatever)

Now I never show anybody any of my work, and lets say the simulation shows something that everyone I showed it too would already know, so its useless. But I did a great job programming it.

So does this great programmer of useless crap that does nothing commercially and lives in his mom's basement become a professional?

No, but even if he's better than bill gates, bill gates saw a need and made (/stole) what he needed to sell a product that is (somewhat) usefull to society, so that makes him much more professional.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure a more appropriate description would be commercial / non-commercial in that case though.

Why can't someone have reached a certain amount of quality, on par with what professionals would do, without being sold? It surely would be off to call it amateur quality, when it's actually on par with professional quality.

I'm making a distinction between the result and whether or not it's commercial.

Remember that even people that do something for a living can be quite unprofessional. It's no given that such 'pros' will be able to achieve the same kind of quality standard as the true professionals. True professionals, as the people that set the bar for the professional quality standard. (Something that's not fixed.)

Perhaps it's a rather relativistic view, but to me it doesn't make sense at all to consider someone professional, just because they're doing something for a living, nor do I think it makes sense to think of something as professional quality when it's sub par compared to amateur work or true professional work, even if it was done for a living.

Say someone would sell crap for a living, this doesn't mean he's professional, it just means he's commercial and his buyers are idiots.

yes but mcdonald's is a professional fast food chain, but they sell crap. Professional and High quality are two different things. I think Professional is the standard set by the general public (in that field) and your ability to produce it. And high quality disregaurds your ability or the standard and just says that It is of an exceptional quality.

But they are hugely commercial in selling their crap and professional at that. The fact that they sell burgers, doesn't mean their burgers are of professional quality though. They can still be of high / low / bad quality.

Which has been my point all along. Doing something for a profession, doesn't mean the quality will be professional !

High quality and professional quality are two rather distinct things indeed and I never claimed otherwise.

Professional quality to me is where people go for the boundaries and potentially raise the bar higher.

Professional work can be anything from lifting a manhole cover to singing a song in front of a live audience. It still says nothing about the quality of said actions / professions.

[quote] Professional work can be anything from lifting a manhole cover to singing a song in front of a live audience. It still says nothing about the quality of said actions / professions. [quote]

well thats sort of the point im trying to make, something professional, is literally something you can do as a profession, regardless of quality.

This is getting old and I feel like I am repeating myself here, but professional quality is something different.

Check the dictionary and you'll see professional has many meanings, but this thread started about professional quality, not professional in the broadest sense (which I still think is better described as 'commercial', as in my opinion 'professional' work also sort of implies high quality or a certain amount of authority too).