Back to topic:

Simple: God.

I agree...huh....
I feel it is reverse engineering
(lesser creatures' building a 'higher creature' together)...as far as complexity in beings and the universe, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

I stepped away for a little while and the thread is 3 pages long.....God and/or politics....oh well.

Get a grip man.

If your telling me "the monkey is already designed" then you mean that all of nature is designed,
because 'your' god designed nature right?
In that case, then in your mind, god created the entire universe right, so how
can we give you an example of something 'complex" that is outside "nature".
You have excluded everything god may have made, which leaves nothing to choose from!

Take two guns in a room and let them shoot both in random directions. Will the bullets collide?



According to your belief, god is perfect. So why can't his creations be perfect?



It seems that you didn't read the footnoting. Didn't you noticce that asterisk? We have two eyes, because our ancestors with two eyes had an advantage over those who had only one.



I already explained why we do need a bladder. Please read my post!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution



And who designed the designer?



Actually this is not evidence for creation but for evolution! This very examples is mentioned in The Origin of Species. Why? Because if there was a designer, why should he have done all the nonsense of putting these two tubes next to each other and doing all the stuff to make it work. Our lungs could work like gills. Fishes don't have that problem. But our lungs did not envolve from gills. They envolved from swim bladders. That's why the trachea ist next to the esophagus.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution



Anything that is not made by human is considered as "natural". So not designed means not natural. So I don't know what you're looking for by saying "not natural and not designed". Maybe your definition of "natural" differs from mine.

Your bible quote is incomplete. Here's the complete quote of Psalm 14:1:

By the part you omitted I can say rightly what you christians often keep saying when you are out of arguments: I feel offended.

Ranman, I'm not sure if you still want to argue religion, or just showing off you newly acquired MED skills. In any case, I regret to say tl;dr. But I think I still got the gist of it..



Random choice of collisions say what? Can you be a bit more descriptive about this random choice of collisions law that you speak of?

Anyway, earth will not be here forever. Its atmosphere did let it survive the "random choice of collisions" for 4 billion years, but 500 million years from now it will be too hot for any life to survive on Earth, and 4 billion years later the whole planet will be completely engulfed by the sun. What's the designer's logic in doing that? He likes to press the 'reboot' button every 8 billion years or so, or should this be perceived as another one of Noah's Arc incident..




Funny, a few hundred years ago If you'd dare to speak of strange DNA stuff the Church would probably hang you. Just like they tried to hang Coppernicus for his theory on the earth revolving around the sun. The very same church you're a part of today, even though you relaxed in the whole sun-revolving-the-flat-earth issue..

To answer your question, the clue is in the title. It's called "the survival of the fittest" not, "the survival of the survivor". We're living a life bound to competitive rules. If you need you and your spawn to survive, then you have to be the BEST. Sure, a one-eyed ape could still see, but some two-eyed ape probably sneaked attacked him and killed him for his banana stash. And even today, i think that a normal human, or even a gifted or talented one in some way (beauty, intelligence, good actor, nice voice, etc) would have more chances having a nice healthy family and lots of kids, than one with no bladder that pisses his pants 5 times a day..




You want to argue about monkeys now just because I put them as an example? Would it make you feel any better if instead of monkeys it's a lite-c line that did this:

file_asc_write(fhandle,integer(32+random(90)));




Trust me, I base all my arguements and decisions on logic (whether mine is flawed or not is another case). I'm not the one believing in ancient stories about people walking on water here..

'Mother nature' has been created by the laws of physics. In turn, you could say that everything man-made has also been created by the laws of physics as a double derivative. You may argue if you want that God was the one that designed those very laws of physics and there would be no-one to oppose you. Most educated people I know are agnostics and they've never claimed to know the answer of what lies beyond this closed system that we call universe and where did all the energy first got introduced inside this system. But believing that this God figure of yours actually took out his sketchbook, drew a little bladder, maybe passed it through some holy beta test, then released it; well that's an argument that people can actually disprove, like jcl is doing in a neighboring thread.

Cheers,
Aris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NSk_ZeAH_I
A very good youtube video related to this topic.
(I hope you may get interested in his book)

Yes, the entire crux of the evolution argument relies upon "species".
So, they rely on an already complex designed product to base their theory on.

But, if it were actually true, then it would not be confined to just species.
There would be other examples of evolution not connected to species.
Where is that?

If I park my car, for example, in a cave for 100 years, then come back to get it 100 years later, will i find a Caddilac or a Mercedez Benz there? Nope, just some ole rusty piece of junk, because that's what happens when things are left to themselves. They don't improve with time, but they decay.

The big hole in the argument, is that they tiddy with nature which in itself is very complicated. Darwin had an excuse for being ignorant of this many years ago, but you people nowadays have no excuse.

I'd like to see an example of evolution not involving complex species, but something simple. It's not there, however, so the whole thing is a lie.

Why? It's not hard. Have you ever heard of levitation? The people in the east know what that is. It's just having angelic powers lift you off the ground. No problemo. I used to see, hear and talk to them years ago, so this is nothing. They can do it easy.

There's no need, because there's no time in the supernatural realm. Time is only a measurement of physical decay, in the spirit world, there is no time, thus the meaning of "everlasting" becomes reality.


Yes, well learning the human body really surprised me and I'd like to share some eye opening points that i learned with ya.

Regarding the human body:
When I say and show how complicated the human body is, then do you understand what it means?
It means that try as they might, the humans of this world has not even come close to designing anything that is as complex and amazing as your body is. And they never will... They'll never make anything that is able to re-produce itself with babies. never....

In conclusion, when the bible calls the atheist "FOOLS", well I totally agree. And very IDIOTIC too I might add.

Oh no, not LITE-C . I'm too busy with my hands full with Apple's Iphone "OBJECTIVE-C" over here now. lol, take care, Ran

It is a crazy setup. surely makes 69ing much less dignified.

...seriously, how the fuck did you come up with that bullshit? a car is not a living being, therefore it can't evolve. besides, evolution doesn't work within 100 years. for fuck's sake, stop thinking in such short time spans.

and stop calling people who believe in scientific facts "fools". if your opinion differs from others, they're not automatically foolish just because of that. that would be like calling my best friend an idiot for not liking industrial or metal music.

so who made my body? it's simple. by my mom and my dad (please don't tell me that i have to explain the story bout the flowers and the bees to you...) which were created by my grandmother and my granddad and so on and so on... well... "created". you get the idea.

long story short: evolution did. (how foolish i am, dun dun dunnn. why yes, i shall burn in hell.)