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Diskussionsforum zur Unendlichkeit: Theismus, Atheismus, Primzahlen, Unsterblichkeit, das Universum...
Discussing Infinity: theism and atheism, prime numbers, immortality, cosmology, philosophy...

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Re: This is not closed yet [Re: Lukas] #335005
07/26/10 10:22
07/26/10 10:22
Joined: Jan 2003
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Cambridge
Joey Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lukas
The human brain helped us surviving. That's what natural selection is all about. If a mutation helps an organism to survive, the new genes will replace the old ones.

that's evolution. There has to be some kind of evolution in first place. Selection doesn't work with amino acids and without reproduction cycle.

Originally Posted By: Lukas
Faster-than-light-travelling has a propability of 0%, because it's not possible.

space-time is allowed to propagate faster than light, thus it is indeed possible to travel faster than light. All you have to do is contract space before you and expand it behind you. In this bubble you can travel faster than light (*) as proven by Alcubierre and Van den Broeck.

(*) It might sound a bit misleading. In fact, you are not traveling faster than light. If light flew in the same bubble as you, it would overtake you. It's just faster than light without curving the space.
The whole point was just about a species being able to colonize galaxies. It's not impossible if the universe is infinite.

Another thing speaking against an infinite universe is entropy. If it was infinite there must be an infinite amount of information in the universe. I don't think that there's a theory validating this (I don't know much about it, to be honest).

Einstein has never measured curved space. In fact, I don't think it was possible at that time. He just predicts it in the GR. This prediction was then verified 1919 as far as I know.

Re: This is not closed yet [Re: Joey] #335009
07/26/10 10:51
07/26/10 10:51
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ventilator Offline
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hm... i am not very knowledgable in this area but for me it is easier to imagine an infinite universe than imagine a finite one. how would the boundary of a finite universe look like? what is behind it? nothingness? wouldn't this nothingness belong to the universe too?

Re: This is not closed yet [Re: Joey] #335015
07/26/10 11:22
07/26/10 11:22
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Netherlands
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Quote:
Another thing speaking against an infinite universe is entropy.


That actually doesn't have to be a problem at all, as the more we've come to learn from what we think of 'empty space', the more we've found out it's actually not truly empty at all.

Quantum effects constantly produce particles and antiparticles "out of nothing," only to have them disappear few moments later. And space itself can either be almost flat or curved, depending on the amount of matter it contains.

I think whenever entropy seems like a problem, it's probably solved by how things work on a (multi-dimensional) quantum level anyway.

Quote:
hm... i am not very knowledgable in this area but for me it is easier to imagine an infinite universe than imagine a finite one. how would the boundary of a finite universe look like? what is behind it? nothingness? wouldn't this nothingness belong to the universe too?


I don't believe in invisible walls either, but from the perspective of logic there doesn't have to be a brick wall at the end that would end our 3-dimensional experience of our universe.

If time and space just curves around into a sphere, we wouldn't even notice that we're in a limited space as if we're swimming in a gigantic fish bowl.

I don't think anything 'outside' of such a curved space would be definable, even though we're used to the concept of things 'inside' and 'outside' of something.

Why does there have to be anything 'outside' of a potential limited universe? From a perspective of logic, there's no reason to as far as I can tell.

Then again, if something expands, it will need theoretical room to do so. Hence at some point there must be a solution to our dimensional space in whatever bigger existential frame everything might float.


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Re: This is not closed yet [Re: PHeMoX] #335017
07/26/10 11:28
07/26/10 11:28
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Cambridge
Joey Offline
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That's true, there is the uncertainty principle which allows creation of particles within a specific time limit. I'm not sure how this is connected to entropy, though. Wait some more years, then I have my final degree and I can tell you wink.

Re: This is not closed yet [Re: Joey] #335020
07/26/10 11:46
07/26/10 11:46
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PHeMoX Offline
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From what I read science doesn't think of entropy as a clock that simply runs out (of energy) and makes everything come to a full and eternal stop though.

"It is impossible to conceive a limit to the extent of matter in the universe; and therefore science points rather to an endless progress, through an endless space, of action involving the transformation of potential energy into palpable motion and hence into heat, than to a single finite mechanism, running down like a clock, and stopping for ever."

The way I see it with layman's eyes, there's likely to be some kind of implosion kind of reversal at some point in time and so everything can start from point zero again. Remember how there has got to have been a state before when our universe started to expand and 'waste' energy. In fact, that state quite likely must have been some kind of equilibrium as well that somehow got kick-started into where we are now.


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For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: This is not closed yet [Re: PHeMoX] #335188
07/27/10 07:59
07/27/10 07:59
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Cambridge
Joey Offline
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Since we're at it and this topic has turned into a mixture of obscure discussion about space, time, religion and nauqoj I'd really like to know if anyone of you believes in the hollow earth hypothesis?

Re: This is not closed yet [Re: Joey] #335242
07/27/10 12:48
07/27/10 12:48
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PHeMoX Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joey
Since we're at it and this topic has turned into a mixture of obscure discussion about space, time, religion and nauqoj I'd really like to know if anyone of you believes in the hollow earth hypothesis?


Lol, that's actually as laughable as the flat earth theory and quite impossible for sure. It hasn't been taken seriously by science since like what.. the 17th century or something? tongue


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: This is not closed yet [Re: PHeMoX] #335259
07/27/10 14:07
07/27/10 14:07
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Lübeck
Slin Offline
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That is actually some very inspiring stuff Joey. Could make a very interesting story and setting for a game tongue

Last edited by Slin; 07/27/10 14:08.
Re: This is not closed yet [Re: Slin] #335323
07/27/10 19:50
07/27/10 19:50
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
Pappenheimer Offline
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There is already a game with this theme - can't find it in my collection of games, but here is a link:

http://www.spieleradar.de/PC/spieledetails/agharta-the-hollow-earth/6_1638.html

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Kompaktes W�rterbuch des UnendlichenCompact Dictionary of the Infinite


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