@JulzMighty: i thought so about the shader contest too, maybe it was actually for that epic fail of a game project that JCL took on, dont recall the name

oh and just the thought that my project could get the attention of someone like you even though your busy with karboom [which i must say i look forward to a race mode]

i think we're doing greatly with shaders and our game, however we wont show until we believe it will drop some jaws.

the strength of this new game lies in its features though, hint: 'online map creator anyone '

The other point is that all 3D artist target Unity than 3DGS.
Juts go on Unity showase or best screenshot thread to find
what means good looking projects.

3D artists prefer Unity, that'w why you sse great looking games on Unity than A8.
Unity RPG
A8 is lot more programmer engine, so that' normal.



Unfortunatly A8 have less good looking projects, less 3D artists jump on it. It's a mainly programming engine dont forget it.
So people shuld stop asking for eye candy things or top notch looking projects !

It's like that.
But like Dark Basic Pro, and Ogre 3D or TrueVision 3D ;
A8 have is own people ,
and people that stays with t caus, it suits their needs and they are happy with it.

To attract new comers, indeed, A8 should have some site lot better presenting tools and features somewhat like Unity 3D,
simply and efficiently.
It would need top notch screenshots also (even if it lacks
top notch looking games).
And a real Showcase 2 , with only top notch looking games a little like in the A6 days

What it lacks is more people making it, oen or tow is not sufficient i think. Each addon or forecast thing takes
so so much time when it's not that huge thing sometimes ??


Well like some other 3D engines that have still their
people, long life to A8

A dying engine is when you find that on forums :

Dying engine thread style

Sad causd it had good potential, but people behind already left
the buyers one time (i bought it when it came out) , i think this time it's definitive.

It is a shame
A great engine in my opinion , not inferior to the super celebrated Unity3d
For a programmer even better than Unity3d
Artists may have a different opinion but I dont think that they can dislike this engine
They made a lot of marketing mistakes, in my opinion
Some members have been shouting like hell for some bugs which were not that serious , not at least for a brand new engine
I am talking about Beyond Virtual
Unity was even more buggy at the tima
On the other hand the developer's reaction was absolutely not acceptable...denying the evidences...insulting etc

I'm not sure that GS is dying, not yet. It'll live till this forum will have 60 on-line members each day...
They will squeeze each cent out of the GS... That's what I think, and this is just my opinion.
And yes, some one here said that isn't easy to make games with GS (not like it was), I can fully agree with that some one.

TRACER

Personally, I think it was harder to makes games with Gamestudio in the past. A8, compared with A6 - which relied solely on C -, is awesome!

Don't take the steep learning curve of Lite-C into account, it is just a programming language which you have to learn as well when changing the engine (it enables also LOTS of new features and ways to code your game!).

And: don't take the claim into account to make super-graphics, that is just a pitfall even big commercial studios are struggling with - that has nothing to do with this engine. Other engines are more shining because they provide more shaders and stuff, but they *require* you to deliver suitable graphics, so, that is also not a proof that developing is much harder.

I even remember that in even older days the manual was a gigantic PDF. Hello? ^^ nothing comparable with that super awesome nice to search with CHM. And you can always look into all available files you include while including acknex.h -- also very informative.

So, what is harder, then?

"Harder" isn't the right word which I need to use I think. And even so, not harder to learn, but to make games... In the time back then, when newcomers were using A5 ready made templates, which were up to date at that time to my mind, making simple shooter was easier and faster then now. Cause the result which users were having with A5 was was good enough at that time not a half life killer, but still good. If we look at the current templates, we can see that they do not look up to date, and new users will need to start learning lite-c or c-script, to make good looking game... You can make simple shooter with current templates in 5 minutes, but it will be hard to call it shooter... Not like back in the past... But even so, yes learning is much easier then it was. But what I said was about making good looking shooter not to learn how to make one.


TRACER

Well in my opinion 3DGS will degenerate into insignificance if there's going to be no changes to adapt to a niche or special target group. It may have been THE indie engine in the A4 to A6 days but it took some wrong steps in my opinion. I don't want to talk about some bad decisions like the too late integration of shaders which then also was half-assed in the beginning. Back then it really aimed at Indies and people totally new to game creation. It was perfect for that purpose because of it being a full development suite offering modeler, world editor and a script editor (later on) in one package. Together with the nice templates you really could achieve some basic things very fast (i.e. in comparison to other engines)...

I just think 3DGS didn't see the signs of changing times then. For example: Back then it was cool to have MED because besides the extremely expensive big 3D suites like 3D Max which were no option for most people. Things have changed though and now we have many good free modelers like Wings or Blender. Instead of keeping MED around while trying to make it somewhat useful they should have scrapped it a long time ago. Just a tiny & nifty piece of software for animation is what really is needed (which would have been great in a WED revamp we didn't really see either)...

I also never understood as to why there had to be Lite-C. I mean besides this totally strange thing of having one guy code which apperently nobody did really care about just to find out that all comments were written in Chinese when he left or however the things did turn out. Ok, Lite-C added more features and options and that's great. Still it's a self-made language you cannot use anywhere else and which also isn't THAT much different from like a full blown C++. I never understood as to why the decision for such a more complex language was made. It totally worked against that main target group of Indies and newcomers. Experienced users were able to make things work with their .dlls and nowadays also can include the engine in C++, C# or whatever else they're using. What in my opinion would have been a good idea is to include an easy language like Java(script) or Lua. That's also where I see the big advantage of e.g. Unity or Shiva (apart from talking about the feature lists): When you're new and no experienced programmer you just can use those easy script languages like Javascript for Unity and Lua for Shiva. As experienced user you still can use some of the more powerful languages. I don't see where Lite-C fits in here. Ok - it is a bit more easy than e.g. C++ but it's nowhere as easy to use (and learn) as e.g. Lua...

And that's why I say 3DGS is going to lose more and more importance and the market as it never really got used for really big projects (and it might never be) while making itself less and less attractive for all the Lone Wolves and small Indie teams. Especially nowadays where everything is about minigames or casual games it starts to get obvious how bad things are for 3DGS. Ok - part of the problem is the lack of platform support but still - 3DGS once was THE engine for such small titles. Like for example Pong or Krokmania or even that game where you play that mouse and collect the cheese. For some reason games like that stopped from popping up here although there currently seems to be quite a demand for such games. Not that nothing good is made with 3DGS nowadays but I think 3DGS lost focus on what it was good at and had a real chance to be good at. I don't see a real perspective in being a rather "programming heavy" with the lack of a great gear in terms of editors, features and performance...

It's sad because I like 3DGS and had my first steps in the 3D world with A4 but it made its way down on my "favorite engine for creating a game with list" further and further. I still wouldn't call 3DGS "dying" though but from my perspective it's heading in the wrong direction where other teams which much more manpower and a more well thought out product strategy will just always be one or several steps ahead...

My 2 cents - 3DGS is a decent engine but the number of starting positions where 3DGS should be the engine of choice really is shrinking...

I for my part don't understand your point about Lite-C, IMO it still is easy.
I still program the way as I did with C-Script. If you don't use the complicating parts of Lite-C, no problem, you don't have to.

I remember such threads since ages...
First it was Torque, then it was Gamecore...
And even before that 3dgs was dying every day.

Acknex has survived them all.

So I think it´s no wonder that jcl can´t hide his smile.
Because we absolutely don´t have any clue how big the sells are. We are just guessing.