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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: Red Ocktober]
#36341
12/17/04 06:00
12/17/04 06:00
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 825
from the 'Burgh to Denver
CBuilder2
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 825
from the 'Burgh to Denver
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Mike,
So, it would seem like you could build games today using Blitz3D for Windows with plans to port the code to BlitzMax for Windows/OS X/Linux. It would seem you could reuse all your resources (3D models, levels, pictures, etc.). Does BlitzMax support the same file formats as Blitz3D? Since I have a Windows machine and neither product, I'm wondering if anyone has done this.
CBuilder
Last edited by CBuilder2; 12/17/04 06:20.
Total_Stupidity = (Ben_Roethlisberger + Motorcycle) - Helmet
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: CBuilder2]
#36342
12/17/04 06:35
12/17/04 06:35
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 815
NY USA
Red Ocktober
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 815
NY USA
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@ CBuilder
i don't think that coding in Blitz3D is gonna really be the thing to do, you'll probably wind up having to recode most of it anyway, not what i'd really call super portable...
BlitzMax has a lot of object oriented stuff that aint in Blitz3D... you'd surely want to take advantge of that...
what i would suggest is building your game directly in BlitzMax, now, on the Mac... and when the Windows version comes out, port it over to Windows... which would mean copying over the source, compiling the code and supplying the path to the resources...
i've already done it... it works... same code base, same resources, mac version, pc version, ooooo lala...
can't get much more portable than that...
also, BlitzMax is 2D only right now... so if 3D is your thing, you might wanna wait, or explore some other option...
visit the Blitz site and get the demo...
--Mike
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: CBuilder2]
#36344
12/17/04 07:23
12/17/04 07:23
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 815
NY USA
Red Ocktober
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 815
NY USA
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use whichever one you like best...
i've programmed a few things with RealBasic on a Mac... then tried the portability thing... that's why i'm advising you to go with BlitzMax... but it's your decision... and you keep asking as if you have some reluctance about it... so,
use whatever you feel comfortable with... i aint getting any kickbacks on sales from the Blitz people...
if you still need more info, read this OPenGL.ORG (scroll down to Dec 10th), or like i said above, go to the Blitz site... download the demo... try it for yourself...
i've already seen both ( i was part of the BlitzMax beta, but didn't really contribute muchdue to time constraints) and, for the last time  my choice overall would be BlitzMax over RealBasic 
or save yourself the trouble and stick with A6 and be happy...
--Mike
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: Nardulus]
#36345
12/17/04 08:04
12/17/04 08:04
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Doug
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
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Quote:
Doug, ole bud, me thinks you are trying to opt out of this tricky task.
I know this is a joke, but if we did do a port it would require a more up-to-date Mac programmer then myself.
I think I may of come off as dismissive in my posts on this subject. I'm actually a strong advocate for porting to the Mac. I've gone over some ideas on a Mac port in the FAQ forum, but I can give you an updated summary here.
[include <disclaimer>; // This is my personal view as an employee of Conitec. Any resemblance between what I say and actual Conitec policy is purely coincidental.  ]
Personally I love the Mac. I like OpenGL too. Both have their pros and cons when compared against Wintel and DX. Ideally we would develop for both. The cold truth however, is that we are limited to the amount of time and money that we can spend on improving our product.
I *want* to pitch the idea of a Mac version of 3DGS, I think we could really own that market, but in order to make a good pitch to my bosses I'm going to need to be able to convince them that we can make money (or at least break even).
I see two ways that we can make this happen. The first is to find somebody to help fund the project. We've done this with other features in the past, normally the funder is somebody who has a big contract and needs a certain feature added to 3DGS. The advantage for Conitec is obvious (limited risk), but the funder also gets more control over how we implement the feature (in the Mac example, he could require that our software run on G3 iBooks). The price is negotiated up front depending on the difficulty of the task (don't quote me, but I think JCL estimated publicly that a Mac port would cost $50,000 but we would have to do some more research before we knew exactly how much). If the funder wanted the project for himself, he would pay all of it. If he wanted to share, we normally offer to pay some of that estimate ourselves (e.g. 50% of the cost).
The second solution is cheaper but much harder, you need to be able to convince Conitec that there is a market that would support the cost of developing and maintaining a Mac product. There have been some good arguments in this thread, but I would need some hard numbers to back this up. For example, if you could get the actually sales numbers of some of the companies that make game development tools for the Mac (these might be available for publicly traded companies).
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: Doug]
#36346
12/17/04 09:44
12/17/04 09:44
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 825
from the 'Burgh to Denver
CBuilder2
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 825
from the 'Burgh to Denver
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Quote:
The second solution is cheaper but much harder, you need to be able to convince Conitec that there is a market that would support the cost of developing and maintaining a Mac product. There have been some good arguments in this thread, but I would need some hard numbers to back this up. For example, if you could get the actually sales numbers of some of the companies that make game development tools for the Mac (these might be available for publicly traded companies).
Doug,
Why not try a slightly different route? You have started out with a baseline of $50,000. Why not find 50 companies or individuals who will purchase an OS X version of 3DGS at $1,000? If you do not find at least 50, refund the money. The incentive to buy a license early could be something like a free upgrades for the next two OS X versions. Once you have $50,000, start working on the project. I think this warrants further exploration. I think if Conitec put it out there in a straightforward manner, they would get the commitments.
Given the "portability" (huge grin) of C/C++, it will take a few weeks. No, in all actuality, that $50,000 would be great "seed" money to help move the editors and the engine. You could probably easily find a wxWidgets (formally wxWindows) expert to make clones of all the editors' dialogs while the Conitec team is working on moving the internals from DirectX to OpenGL or SDL. Once the Mac OS X version is finished using wxWidgets and OpenGL or SDL, it could easily be ported to Linux.
Just my two cents...
CBuilder
Last edited by CBuilder2; 12/17/04 10:23.
Total_Stupidity = (Ben_Roethlisberger + Motorcycle) - Helmet
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: CBuilder2]
#36348
12/17/04 10:46
12/17/04 10:46
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 815
NY USA
Red Ocktober
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 815
NY USA
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@ CBuilder
what!!!!!!!!
if you don't already have a Mac, what are ya going about all this for in the first place 
hey, first of all, i don't prefer any of em... i use what works... BlitzMax seemed to fit the specs you outlined far better than RealBasic... now, i've told you already, but i'll repeat it cause it seems as if you missed it...
the whole thing about portablility on anything but a trivial piece of code with RealBasic is questionable... with BlitzMax, it's not... you don't believe me (why should you actually) then go pay the licensing fee and play with it yourself... you'll be right back here, $300 lighter, and a lot wiser...
also, if you plan on waiting for Conitec to ok the OSX version, then i hope you're a patient man... like Doug said, this aint gonna be no overnite wham bang kinda thing... first they gotta ok it, then it's gotta be coded...
merry xmas 2006... or 2007 for that matter... if we're lucky...
--Mike
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: Red Ocktober]
#36349
12/17/04 11:53
12/17/04 11:53
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 825
from the 'Burgh to Denver
CBuilder2
Developer
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Developer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 825
from the 'Burgh to Denver
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Red Ocktober,
I never wrote I owned a Mac. I agree with Ken; I like the opportunities a Mac Version of 3DGS presents. I'm going to buy a Mac when I can actually use it for one of my projects. So far, I have not found a "need" for it. I'm not one of those zealots who runs out and buys a Mac to find the many applications he uses are simply not available on the Mac. When 3DGS for OS X comes out, I'll run out and buy one. Until then, it would just be a nice conversation piece!
CBuilder
Last edited by CBuilder2; 12/17/04 12:13.
Total_Stupidity = (Ben_Roethlisberger + Motorcycle) - Helmet
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Re: GameStudio for Mac?
[Re: CBuilder2]
#36350
12/17/04 13:11
12/17/04 13:11
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,835
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Nardulus
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,835
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
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I am with you Rich, I smell indie oppurtunity, how can we get to it.
Heck I would pay $1,500 and I would offer to code a section if Doug wanted some help.
I do not think it is fair for one funder to front the 50K. If I had a client that could do that, would Conitec be willing to split revenue when it sells the MAC verison.
Blitz is interesting, there are guys working on a Cipher Port also. Torque is a good engine but I am just not compatible with it, my prob, not Torques.
I think Doug was saying that if they could get 25K Conitec might meet half way. So the hill is not that big to climb.
Ken
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