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Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: JibbSmart] #370072
05/10/11 20:25
05/10/11 20:25
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,861
Kiel (Germany)
Superku Offline
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Superku  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,861
Kiel (Germany)
Very cool!
There's only one thing I dislike, that is he takes cover fully automatically. Killzone 3 has a similar automatic cover system, I hate it, you just want to take cover behind a car or something similar and you instantly get stuck to it.
I know, it's the complete opposite of Jibb's post, but think about an option to toggle automatic cover on/ off.


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Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: Superku] #370090
05/10/11 21:39
05/10/11 21:39
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,181
Austria
Blattsalat Offline
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Blattsalat  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,181
Austria
I also prefer the "take cover while one button is pressed" method, but i dont see big issues having an automated version of it.
I liked the mass effect approach: automatic cover and getting out of cover when pressing the r-mouse while shoting.

So far it looks very well made and i hope to see a lot more wink

cheers


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Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: Blattsalat] #370111
05/11/11 01:10
05/11/11 01:10
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,246
ny
jumpman Offline OP
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jumpman  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,246
ny
thanks for the comments, and taking a look guys laugh

@Julzmighty
Thank you! I love your work! your car game is easily some of the most polished work on here!

@3run
there should be a demo when the game is "done" if you can call it that. It really wont be a fully finished game, as it will be more of a character design/animation/level design/scripting portfolio piece. How far I push into the completion of a full game depends on whether enough people like the game and its story. For now, my target is going to be a demo game, with a few levels, and probobly leave the demo at a cliff hanger laugh

Ideally, I would like to make the game (whether demo or full version) to be free.

@rachet
Almost all of the previous systems on the game is finished, I cant believe how far the game has come, and what I was able to learn and do with it. Right now I am mainly doing base code for gameplay elements, and getting down a pipeline to get assets into gamestudio. But my true expertise is artwork laugh. At the moment, Ive been trial and erroring some basic guidelines for naming conventions for animations, how many frames of animation each, and bone naming conventions. This is so that every production model made after will be able to fit right into the existing code.

I have uncharted 2, and yes this game was very very fun. The designers had a very funneled and precise level design for fighting groups of enemies behind cover. This gameplay is still technically slower than most games, but comparing a bullet train at full speed to a fighter jet breaking the sound barrier, both are fast! (and fun!)

@Darkinferno
Yup, introducing a cover system goes hand in hand with much more slower gameplay. I'm not an expert in this area, but I think many factors can affect whether your game requires a cover system. Player movement speed, bullet travel speed, and bullet damage/player HP are the biggest influences on a cover system.

Movement Speed:
If a player can move quickly like Quake or Classic Doom, the aspect of cover and defense is actually not sticking towards walls, but moving in and out of cover fast enough. Games like counterstrike where the players arent slow dont simulate stamina/fatigue. In real life if someone were to run at full speed with a weapon, he will not be able to keep this up for long. Getting behind cover lets you rest a bit, and lets you dig in and fire at an enemy who also has a fatigue factor and who is also under cover.

Bullet speed:
If the projectiles are reletively slow moving compared to real life bullet speed or instant hit scan weapons in games, then defense is just moving past the bullet.

Bullet Damage/Player HP:
If a character is severely punished for being out in the open and getting hit by bullets, this coupled with a slower movement speed, then a cover system is good. Because the cover will block much of your body while you let the enemy fire and inevitably have to reload.

Games like Call of Duty, you are punished with death with 2-3 bullets, and you can still sprint around reletively fast. Zooming a camera out and watching players fight in a match, you notice how unnatural everyone is moving and acting; sprinting without taking a rest, performing complex reloads while running, instantly switching weapons and etc.

Having a cover system can actually increase the combat time of each player to AI encounter, since the pace is slower and AI is more defensive minded. Because AI arent running around constantly in the open, they can last longer (outside of just increasing their armor).

Dont worry about gore+cover=Gears of war. Every single AAA game out now uses a mechanic/art style/theme done by another game before it. For Gears of War it was killswitch made by namco, which could be argued to be the first cover shooter.

@Germanunkol
I will make a crude image of what is going on within the code to show you soon laugh

@Superku
Yes! I hate automatic cover.....that magnetizes you towards the surface! Thats why I made this cover type. All it requires is your movement keys to get into and out of cover. When the character leans on the wall, he is not stuck to the wall as if on rails. I think Gears of War does this, and I found it to be very unnatural.

@Blattsalat
Yes! me too! Killzone 3 and Crysis 2 has automatic "pop out of cover when pressing the trigger", and I found it to be very fun (although it seemed unrealistic to pop in and out that fast).

Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: jumpman] #370112
05/11/11 02:59
05/11/11 02:59
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
darkinferno Offline
Serious User
darkinferno  Offline
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
oh i wasnt worrying about doing another cover based game, ive been taking notes, in cover based games, less players tend to rush unto the battlefield and when they do get there, they move into cover, with a decent amount of health, this increases the combat time between 2 players, cover tends to create a 'waiting' behaviour, regardless of what people may think, it does slow the pace, not to a boring level but it does cause a change, after all, the point of cover is to increase your survivability

i like your system though, i have a few ideas on doing it, just dont think its smart for the play style i want, wish you luck on your game, its one of the more impressive GS projects, codewise, though you say its suppose to be an art showcase, i think most ppl will be more impressed by your functionalities ^^

oh and ratchet, just a request, you dont have to listen but can you please stop using so many exclamation marks ? they always make me think youre shouting at someone .. try a fullstip grin

Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: darkinferno] #370568
05/14/11 02:29
05/14/11 02:29
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,218
Germany
Rackscha Offline
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Rackscha  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,218
Germany
I absolutely love coversystems.
RanbowSixVegas2 in Multiplay: good.

MAssEffect(1+2) wonderfull.

Fights get a lot more athmosphere, cause its not just shoot and kill.

And it might by that iam totally tired...but the White spheres...did they react to a playerkollision o.O


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Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: Rackscha] #370598
05/14/11 14:54
05/14/11 14:54
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
darkinferno Offline
Serious User
darkinferno  Offline
Serious User

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
Mass Effect cover system annoyed me, didnt like it, felt too stiff but i guess thats just my opinion

Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: darkinferno] #370687
05/15/11 00:25
05/15/11 00:25
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,246
ny
jumpman Offline OP
Serious User
jumpman  Offline OP
Serious User

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,246
ny
Hey everyone, an update to the cover system.

I have added the ability for the character to peak out of corners and fire, and return to cover. If you press the fire button, and there is a corner the character is close to, he will play the respective lean animation and fire!

Also added is the ability to now hide under low cover. The character will crouch down next to low cover. If you press the fire button, he will pop up and fire, then return to crouching. (Crouching+strafing animation not in yet, but very simple to add)

After a few small bugs are fixed, I'll be spending a good amount of time integrating this system into the AI. That will be an adventure laugh frown

YOUTUBE VIDEO!!!
[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0HE0ix5RIQ&feature=channel_video_title[/video]

Also below is the initial concept design that was running parallel to the code while I was working on it.

Read from left to right then next row like a comic book. Ask questions if you have any laugh

Page 1:




Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: jumpman] #370688
05/15/11 00:27
05/15/11 00:27
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,211
İstanbul, Turkey
Quad Online
Senior Expert
Quad  Online
Senior Expert

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,211
İstanbul, Turkey
someone add this to the wiki.

Great stuff.


3333333333
Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: Quad] #370700
05/15/11 06:52
05/15/11 06:52
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,640
Earth
Germanunkol Offline
Expert
Germanunkol  Offline
Expert

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,640
Earth
Very well done. I like the part where you walk along a slanted cover and he crouches down as soon as his head is showing...

And thanks for the drawings! They're very straight forward, I like how you solved this... especially the fact that the crouch cover system is basically only a simple modified version of the standing cover system is cool.


~"I never let school interfere with my education"~
-Mark Twain
Re: Gears of War style 3rd Person Cover System [Re: Germanunkol] #370787
05/15/11 18:12
05/15/11 18:12
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,178
England
M
MrGuest Offline
Serious User
MrGuest  Offline
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M

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,178
England
Great work, really loved the cover while against the slanted wall, this is another project I really can see being on the shelves one day!

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