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Wintermute Engine 1.8.6 (April 6, 2008) #37192
12/01/04 07:31
12/01/04 07:31
Joined: Aug 2000
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Orange Brat Offline OP

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The new update for the point & click 2D adventure game authorware, Wintermute Engine(WME), is out as of today. The coolest new feature is the introduction of realtime 3D object support. Now, games with prerendered or handdrawn backgrounds can be combined with 3D models, and I believe WME is the only software of its kind that has the feature.

Examples of such games using this technique are Syberia, Syberia II, Resident Evil(0-3), Grim Fandango, Escape from Monkey Island, Discworld Noir, Final Fantasy VII-IV, and many others.

Download and try out a compiled demo showcasing the new technology here: http://dead-code.org/download/wme_demo_3d.zip

Find out more about WME here: http://www.dead-code.org/

Download the massive demo to the WME flagship game, Our Still Unnamed Project Joe, here: http://www.synthetix-interactive.com/project_joe/


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Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: Orange Brat] #37193
12/01/04 08:27
12/01/04 08:27
Joined: Oct 2004
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TheExpert Offline
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Great !

i tink we lack adventure games, i personnaly prefer adventure with some action.
And your very original game OrangeBrat is it progressing ?
I'm waitting for Killer 7 review the 12 or 15 December i think , to see if it is original and very good at same time or a bad game (i hope not!).

Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: TheExpert] #37194
12/01/04 08:43
12/01/04 08:43
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Nadester Offline

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Reminds me so much of FF7. Awesome stuff!


--Eric
Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: Nadester] #37195
12/01/04 11:05
12/01/04 11:05
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[moved]


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Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: Orange Brat] #37196
12/01/04 13:31
12/01/04 13:31
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I've just skimmed the new sections of the manual regarding 3D. The engine uses the Milkshape format, and it requires a simple hidden scene geometry model in 3DS format. This is used to define walk-planes, blocked areas, waypoints, lights, and cameras.

Using 3D also eliminates the old hardware compatibility mode, but the minimum card required is a TNT2, so I don't think that's any big deal even for adventure gamers.

Quote:

And your very original game OrangeBrat is it progressing ?





Slowly and in semi-limbo. I'm ping ponging between 3DGS and WME..this new update is enticing.


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Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: Orange Brat] #37197
12/01/04 22:54
12/01/04 22:54
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Well , you can do exatcly same things with 3DGS , you can have a complete 3D
backgrounds with same quality by using Baked textures (with 3DSMAX or other tools). the advantage you level is 3D and you can have some cameras
like resident evil game or one of your old demos i'v tried.
Well post some screenshots one day .

Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: TheExpert] #37198
12/02/04 01:26
12/02/04 01:26
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This comes down to the old argument: Use what works for your given situation. In the case of a 2D point & click adventure(with or without 3D objects), it's much easier to use something like WME as opposed to 3DGS. You get the benefit of editors and a scripting language that were created for the task of making this style of game. Also, when using the 3D option in WME, you're walking around in a real 3D environment with multiple cameras and lights, so you aren't getting any advantages with 3DGS.

3D on 2D can be accomplished in 3DGS, but there's a ton of extra setup involved. The most difficult part is placing the sprite masks(the areas that things can walk behind) in the proper place so that the scale matches up with the original background plate. Also, you're going to need more than baked textures to pull off the detail in realtime. You simply aren't going to be able to achieve that amount of geometric detail and keep the framerate high enough to satisify the overwhelming majority of your target audience.

While the tech demo, in my first post, could be done with baked textures and in realtime, do you really think you can pull off the subtlety and detail of this Syberia II painting(click link) without the benefit of a ton of geometry? .

http://www.geocities.com/hainesrs/syb.jpg




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Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: Orange Brat] #37199
12/02/04 05:41
12/02/04 05:41
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TheExpert Offline
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Yeah ! that's right !

But perhaps you can mix 2D and 3D also with 3DGS, like you said 3DGS is not
oriented to this style of game and the other tool is fully dedicaced to
adventure games.
But your game will not be full 3D ,but mix of 2D,3D ?
And 3D in this tool i think is not as advanced as with pixel shaders and some
amazing effects that would be prerended in 2D (particle effects, bump mapping!!
well perhaps try it and see what gives the best results.

Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: TheExpert] #37200
12/02/04 10:10
12/02/04 10:10
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Quote:

But perhaps you can mix 2D and 3D also with 3DGS, like you said 3DGS is not
oriented to this style of game and the other tool is fully dedicaced to
adventure games.




Correct..as I said in my last post, you can mix 2D and 3D in 3DGS. However, there is a lot of prep work that goes into it and it just isn't worth it, especially now that WME allows the mixing of the two technologies. With 3DGS, placing and scaling the background plate is very easy..the tedious part is placing your sprites and getting scale right. If your screen has a lot of areas that the player can walk behind, this can get very old very quickly. I suppose you could write a script that would allow you to move the sprite around and scale it during runtime. You'd then take note of the scale and world position and place it accordingly in WED. If I ever feel like being mentally tormented, I may give it a try.

Quote:

But your game will not be full 3D ,but mix of 2D,3D ?




Yes, the 2D background are your graphics, and your player walks around on top of it via an invisible collision model. Doing it the old fashioned way(all 2D) required you to play around with some scaling parameters, but using the 3D approach eliminates both this and the need to draw hundreds of frames of animation for the various characters. However, the tradeoff is higher system requirements and the lack of an old hardware compatibility mode(which automatically triggers in an all 2D situation).

Quote:

And 3D in this tool i think is not as advanced as with pixel shaders and some
amazing effects that would be prerended in 2D (particle effects, bump mapping!!
well perhaps try it and see what gives the best results.




True, however you aren't going to want to use shaders given the target market. There's more older hardware than newer, so it really isn't worth investing the time in it. Plus, there's really no need for them in this kind of game. Adventure gamers aren't as preoccupied with graphics as action gamers. They're more interested in the plot, character development and quality of puzzles. The hardcore element is drawn to high quality drawn backgrounds, but they'll forgive 3D if the game measures up.

The only thing 3DGS has over WME besides shaders would be stencil shadows, but 3DGS stencils won't render on "none" flagged surfaces, so it's a useless feature for this style of play and isn't an advantage.


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Re: Wintermute Engine 1.3...RT3D in 2D is here... [Re: Orange Brat] #37201
01/03/05 16:52
01/03/05 16:52
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The developers uploaded a small but cool Xmas gift update. It introduces direct control of the player, so it's more than just useful for point & click.

They've also released a WME compliant 3DS exporter for Blender and it can be found in the scripts/plugins section of the forum. 3DS files exported from Cinema4D or MAX will also work, too.


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