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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Iglarion] #448021
01/17/15 11:37
01/17/15 11:37
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,210
Bavaria, Germany
Kartoffel Offline
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Kartoffel  Offline
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Posts: 2,210
Bavaria, Germany
so.. here's some stuff from the ue4 elemental demo:



What I want to say with this is that you can access everything thats loaded into the ram at runtime and monitor every single drawcall.

Edit: so as long as you don't encrypt your textures & meshes and decrypt them everytime you need the information by using vertex and pixel shaders you can't make your stuff unaccessible grin

Last edited by Kartoffel; 01/17/15 11:53.

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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Iglarion] #448023
01/17/15 11:57
01/17/15 11:57
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline OP
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Reconnoiter  Offline OP
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Netherlands
Thanks that was alot of usefull information!

Quote:
1. Do you mean the BSP tree? It used to be the default tree in prior acknex versions and is well suited for (mostly) indoor or oldschool shooters and games like Doom, Quake, Forsaken/ Descent and similar.
The region_set feature is nice though, especially for suppressing stuff like content in a house when the player is outside of it.
, yes the BSP and portals ( scene manager ), I was wondering if it could be used for preplaced models too, but its only for blocks right? I am working on a own realtime map editor (but no WED placed block support I think but it does have WED-like compiling) and its hard to get back to WED grin .

Quote:
4. The starter definition is a joke by modern standards, it's from old A4 days but you can do some simple stuff with it (preferably hiding it I guess).
, so using a simple script made in e.g. visual studio is the only way to overhaul it? I need to change it for some program. For games I can live with it, but for programs its just really awkward.

Quote:
One additional remark: you can select WRS files during runtime, which enables the following possibilities:
, that sounds really handy. I don't mind if the best hackers out there can hack it, just as long as it protects against most c&p people I am happy laugh .




Last edited by Reconnoiter; 01/17/15 11:58.
Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Reconnoiter] #448030
01/17/15 15:42
01/17/15 15:42
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,210
İstanbul, Turkey
Quad Offline
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Quad  Offline
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Posts: 5,210
İstanbul, Turkey
off-topic: I have a wrs unpacker for a6 and a7 wrs files in source code format(not public, not planning to share) i wrote a couple of years back sitting on my hdd somewhere.


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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Quad] #448032
01/17/15 15:47
01/17/15 15:47
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,113
NRW/Germany
alibaba Offline
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alibaba  Offline
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Posts: 2,113
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Off-Topic2: Also possible with QuickBMS


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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: alibaba] #448033
01/17/15 15:59
01/17/15 15:59
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,861
Kiel (Germany)
Superku Offline
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Superku  Offline
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Posts: 6,861
Kiel (Germany)
It doesn't make a difference whether or not WRS unpackers exist, as already mentioned multiple times before in this thread you can "hack" any game and extract resources. They - the "hackers" - are not allowed to use your stuff anyway.

@Reconnoiter: The so called portals are generated automatically by the map compiler and used by the BSP tree but only for WED blocks, yes.


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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Superku] #448034
01/17/15 16:14
01/17/15 16:14
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,113
NRW/Germany
alibaba Offline
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alibaba  Offline
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Posts: 2,113
NRW/Germany
Just trying to keep the forum alive grin


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--------------------
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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: alibaba] #448035
01/17/15 16:37
01/17/15 16:37
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,082
Germany
C
Ch40zzC0d3r Offline
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Ch40zzC0d3r  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,082
Germany
First 4 bytes of a WRS telling you which WRS format it is.
A8 uses WRS4 (0x57 0x52 0x53 0x34), followed by 32 bytes for the name.
Now, thats the header of the file. How do we decrypt it?
After every 32 bytes, the name of the file follows.
Now we simply XOR all the data content by the value 0xAA for WRS4.
This works for every gamestudio WRS packer since A4.
The only thing changed was the XOR byte.
Pro: XOR is fast
Con: Why not change the XOR bytes with the current reading offset? Thats so easy to reverse..
Would take some more time to figure out...
Seriously, just pack a .exe in WRS and look at the first 2 bytes (always MZ, called PE Signature)
Now you can simply figure out which byte was used to xor (simple math)

Last edited by Ch40zzC0d3r; 01/17/15 16:38.
Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Ch40zzC0d3r] #448036
01/17/15 18:35
01/17/15 18:35
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
Reconnoiter Offline OP
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Reconnoiter  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,823
Netherlands
@Superku, thanks for the info.
Its a shame it actually does not work for preplaced models/terrain. Could it in theory be possible?
Or are blocks just to different from models?

Re: a few questions about pro [Re: Ch40zzC0d3r] #448041
01/17/15 20:50
01/17/15 20:50
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,751
Canada
WretchedSid Offline
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WretchedSid  Offline
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Canada
Originally Posted By: Ch40zzC0d3r
Why not change the XOR bytes with the current reading offset? Thats so easy to reverse..
Would take some more time to figure out...

Because to make it effectively secure you need a key of the length of the content, and the key can't be ever shared with anyone you don't trust. This would essentially be a one time pad. It would also be useless, because you either share the key and obfuscate it in your binary somewhere but have it still accessible to unpack your data, or you don't and your users won't be able to play the game anymore.

It really boils down to the following: At some point you have to access the data on the client machine. So the application itself has to somehow be able to unpack them.

You can obfuscate it, or do hacks like having a slave .exe that launches your actual .exe and attaches itself as a silent debugger to it. Windows only allows one debugger attached per application, so it makes it harder for third party to attach a real debugger and watch the execution of your program.

Really, the only reason you probably want encryption and resource packs is for updates: Sign your resource packs cryptographically and check the signature at runtime. That way you can at least make sure that no one is supplying malicious updates to the user.


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Re: a few questions about pro [Re: WretchedSid] #448042
01/17/15 21:29
01/17/15 21:29
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,082
Germany
C
Ch40zzC0d3r Offline
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Ch40zzC0d3r  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,082
Germany
Originally Posted By: WretchedSid
Because to make it effectively secure you need a key of the length of the content, and the key can't be ever shared with anyone you don't trust. This would essentially be a one time pad. It would also be useless, because you either share the key and obfuscate it in your binary somewhere but have it still accessible to unpack your data, or you don't and your users won't be able to play the game anymore.

It really boils down to the following: At some point you have to access the data on the client machine. So the application itself has to somehow be able to unpack them.

You can obfuscate it, or do hacks like having a slave .exe that launches your actual .exe and attaches itself as a silent debugger to it. Windows only allows one debugger attached per application, so it makes it harder for third party to attach a real debugger and watch the execution of your program.

Really, the only reason you probably want encryption and resource packs is for updates: Sign your resource packs cryptographically and check the signature at runtime. That way you can at least make sure that no one is supplying malicious updates to the user.


Well your completely right here.
But most people wont even try to decrypt the file when they notice that the encryption is not only xored by a byte or dword.
All Im saying is to make it a bit harder for those people out there tongue
Btw, you can detach a debugger from a process.

Last edited by Ch40zzC0d3r; 01/17/15 21:29.
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