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alternative terrain approach
#69852
04/06/06 09:03
04/06/06 09:03
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012 germany, dresden
ulf
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OP
Serious User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012
germany, dresden
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hey, i would like to discuss an alternative terrain approach like seen in demonica. http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/640695/an/0/page/0#640695templar the developer said: Quote:
- the terrain consists of several aligned uv mapped models
- what you see on the ground is really in the texture - no shaders, no dynamic shadows (except for the characters), no rendering to texture
i have thought a bit about it and i would like to discuss how you could implent a terrain like this.
basically i think you have to make the "several aligned models" with a modeller. you can make tiles in my opinion. at least for things like a town the tiles have to be the same size powers of 2. each tile has to fit to the next and so on. this way you can make roads on flat terrain. you would need a special size for each tile and a seemless texture so you dont see the transitions. you would have to position each gap directly close to the next.
i dont know yet how you could achieve correct collision behaviour, i mean is it possible to work like on terrain? so let the player walk on top of a model and walk up if the model has a hill? this might sound a bit noobish but i really havent used models as ground yet! and here is where i dont get further with this solution? i thought models use a bounding box wich is squared. and if you use polygon collision you lose a lot of performance and get bugs?
there are only advantages with this approach i think. namely you can even have things like caves in your terrain. you can have shadows on the texture to save rendering power. you can use unlimited terrain textures not only 3 like with normal terrain+shader. models render faster in a6 compared to a big terrain.
the only disadvantages i could think of where the improved work for the terrain tiles. and maybe the higher texture consumption.
well please contribute to this idea, how could you improve it and so on?
thanks in advance!
Last edited by ulf; 04/06/06 09:06.
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Re: alternative terrain approach
[Re: ulf]
#69853
04/06/06 13:09
04/06/06 13:09
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,829 Neustadt, Germany
TWO
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,829
Neustadt, Germany
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No bugs ulf at the last update the collision-system was updated, now it´s working nearly perfect. And it is fast too, if chars use aabb and the groundmodel polygonal collision. To the Textures... all models are stored on the client, so... hachgott, hab kein bock mehr: Wie einige Tests gezeigt ham machen größere Texturen bei der Perfomance nicht viel aus, allerdings sollte eine größe von 1024x1024 nicht überschritten werden. Die optimale texturengröße bei älteren karten ist 256x256, bei neueren 512x512. Da die Modelle für den Boden schon aufm Client liegen ist die Maploading Zeit auch nicht höher, eher sogar noch kürzer! Xpresso
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Re: alternative terrain approach
[Re: TWO]
#69854
04/06/06 18:28
04/06/06 18:28
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
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The Terrain in Daeomica looks realy nice, especially the way multitexturing, and lights work together. Im sticking to the good old terrain though, since it gives a lot of advntages. Namely that the shadow of animated Models works nice on it. With Models as terrain, one would need stencil shadows, which is much too slow. Here is a way to make a normal Terrain look nice with some shadows baked on it: It would also work with lightsources that could be baked on it. The main problem is, that this way it does not have a multitexture terrain. I would need a new shader to mix baked shadows, and multitexture. Models are a good way to go, but require much more effort, to implement right.
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Re: alternative terrain approach
[Re: ulf]
#69856
04/06/06 19:49
04/06/06 19:49
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles
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Posts: 4,305
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The question in not, how to make a terrain as good, as in Daemonica that used Models, The questions is, what looks good, it not too much of work (fits project plan) and renderes in the required speed.
Using Models gives next to the advantages also big drawbacks, like the consumption of texturespace and the Massive Modelling work, and not to forget the need for c_move and c_trace, plus the problems with entity-shadows.
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Re: alternative terrain approach
[Re: ulf]
#69858
04/06/06 20:32
04/06/06 20:32
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
Damocles
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,305
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Also ich schreib mal auf Deutsch:
das Terrain hier ist is ein ganz normales Terrain mit Detailmap und einer großen Textur mit den Schattendaten. Es is einfach grau mit dunkelgrauen Stellen, wo die Schatten sind. Die Detailtextur wird so aufgehellt oder abgedunkelt.
Das erstellen ist eigendlich recht einfach, es gibt eine "Sonne", die kleine tracestralen aussendet, und dort wo das Terrain getroffen wird, wird es heller.
Ist das rendering abgeschlossen speichere ich die erzeugte Schattentextur und lade sie als ganz normalen Skin.
Mit dem Multitexturing geht das nicht so einfach, da bräuchte man einen neuen shader, der auch die Schattierung mit in den Prozess mit einbezieht, aber das muss einer der shaderexperten schreiben, ich kann sowas nicht.
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