All right, well I hadn't intended to derail this topic with a bunch of nonsense about moral relativity. So I'm going to start a whole new topic for that one. I know we discussed it before, but the atheists on the board probably got uncomfortable with the implications of their belief and just stopped talking about it. But since it seems you take accusations that your belief makes heinous crimes seem ok personally, we can discuss it further.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

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Consciousness--while evolutionarily emergent, allows humans and higher animals to make choices.

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Higher animals? What other animal is conscious?

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Yes, but this doesn't mean evolution is the culprit for this, bad choices are. And it's questionable wether all bad things are done out of love for someone else. When someone really loves someone else, he or she would never hurt them. They would only do so, if they became jaleous or start to hate them for some reason. So technically love doesn't hurt.

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Ok, all I was saying was that you have to look at love-fueled actions to see love's effect on human life. Not that love causes bad things to happen. In fact, hurting someone because you're jealous is the opposite of love. Based on what older cultures thought of love, its apparently patient, kind, etc. Jealousy, anger, rage, and revenge all lead to hurting someone, even if its over love.

So I agree with you, but I just wanted to clear up what I was saying, because it sounded like you were saying I thought love causes bad stuff.

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In this respect both evolution and a religion like your own are equal as bad or good,

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That was wrong on so many levels, but I have to wait until I split this topic to take care of that problem.

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A better argument than love would be hate btw. But there's a equal story for that.

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In regards to natural selection, hate is an easy one. I think you've forgotten the whole point of this discussion to begin with.

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I missed why it contradicts ... care to explain that a bit for me? Thanks.

(bold part) You've said it yourself, it's an advantage to raise children. But when looking at it a bit more selfish, why do we even raise them?? Not for ourselves, we could live without them, but off course our genes would end to exist with our dead.

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It doesn't. Its good to take care of your kids. Selection will favor parents who do. I was dismissing the notion that parental behavior wouldn't be selected for, not using it as an argument against evolution. My arguments against evolution are clearly stated. People who go out on a limb for complete strangers, risking their lives usually for nothing in return, should be more likely to die than others. But humans seem driven to do this.