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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#78120
06/28/06 05:45
06/28/06 05:45
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
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Wisconsin
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Quote:
A brilliant observation. So, there being absolutely no evidence at all for creationism, it seems it is the weakest idea around.
Seriously, what evidence do you have for your position? None. All you can do is attack evolution, and hope this somehow helps your own claim, when inreality you have absolutely no positive evidenec for a creator or creation.
Well...maybe I do that because evolution is the exact opposite of creation. So if something about evolution is necessarily false, then that aspect of creation is necessarily true. But I wouldn't claim to have 'evidence' of a creator (except His design) because we can't put a creator in a test tube.
But let's put it this way. One proof of a necessary creation is that mutations will never write new animals. Now, ignoring that actual debate, it will necessarily fall to evolution. We'll debate specific instances of mutations that you suppose are valid for evolution because there's no where else to go. So the debate will almost always fall back on evolution by default.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#78122
06/28/06 08:12
06/28/06 08:12
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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There will probably never be an evidence for a creator. This is only guessing and guessing with no proof at all is not the way science works. Evolution has enough proofs and there is no need to discuss this further. Just study it and you will be overwhelmed with info's and articles that come from thousands of authors over a very long period. It is really simple: Why should so many smart people over such a long period be wrong? Why should Irish_farmer suddenly appears and is the smartest guy in the whole world and falsifies everything. Please be realistic.  And the of reaction of Irish_farmer will be misleading like always. He will quote a single sentence and will state that in the history many people were wrong and it must be logical conclusion that the time comes for his new and en-lighting wisdom
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#78123
06/28/06 14:47
06/28/06 14:47
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Quote:
Evolution is the only theory where EVERYTHING is proof of evolution. If we find a species different than what we see in the fossil record, but similar its because of evolution. If we find the exact same species in the fossil record, unchanged, then its because of evolution.
Everything can be explained by evolution.
I never said we have found the 'exact same species in the fossil record', so what are you basing this on? When looking at the fossil record you will see that along with different sharks, there have also been very different crocodiles found, another species that 'hasn't changed much'. I was talking about how the species didn't change much over the 100+ million years, I didn't say they didn't change at all.
I meant the fact that they didn't grow wings or rabbit tales. Just to get some things straight. 
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Yes, but there are specific sharks that have remained in stasis for 100s of millions of years. The same species.
No, sizes have changed along with certain internal things most definately. I'm sure the earliest sharks were not as well adapted. We are looking at one of the oldest species, that means that they've had plenty of time to evolve into almost perfect hunters, which they infact are.
Cheers
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#78124
06/28/06 14:50
06/28/06 14:50
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
There will probably never be an evidence for a creator.
Sure there will! Have you ever heard of Judgement_Day? 
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Evolution has enough proofs and there is no need to discuss this further. Just study it and you will be overwhelmed with info's and articles that come from thousands of authors over a very long period.
Poppycock! Ive studied it, IM still studying it, however I also study nature (for my art projects mainly) and yet I see the design of God inside everything around me, the more i study nature, the more I am impressed with God's design, and the more i realsise the impossibility of evolution.
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1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
God has made the greatest irony by allowing even the uneducated and the children to understand His creation, it makes no difference to God if all the so-called smart people will believe.
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Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye would have no sin: but now ye say, We see: your sin remaineth.
So if this world says: "we see" then they are blind. Science today is saying: "we see"--yet they are blind, and it is becasue God has blinded them.
If we come to Jesus and admit we are blind, only then can we truly see.
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#78125
06/28/06 15:01
06/28/06 15:01
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986
Frankfurt
jcl
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Quote:
In any case, science must deal with purely natural explanations, so it has nothing to say whatsoever on a creator or a god. Why cant you see that? How does it hurt you to admit it?
I would agree to restricting science to natural explanations, but this does not necessarily exclude a creator - as long as there's a natural explanation for that creator.
For instance, if we one day find evidence that extraterrestrials have created life on earth, science had to deal with those extraterrestrials. Especially with the question how they evolved and became able to create life.
Fortunately, at the moment it does not look as if life were created by gods or extraterrestrials.
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: NITRO777]
#78126
06/28/06 15:11
06/28/06 15:11
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Quote:
Sure there will! Have you ever heard of Judgement_Day?
Yes, I can hardly wait ... oww wait, I'll be dead by then. Aahm, so much for witnissing any evidence about a creator... 
Quote:
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye would have no sin: but now ye say, We see: your sin remaineth.
And still you don't seem to understand exactly WHY the bible is full of those kind of lines.
You only think the line itself makes sense because you think everything 'Jesus' said must be true. When looking at the exact same line a bit more objective then you'll see that it's clearly nonsense.
Blind people can have sins too, not just that, but why would people that can see be blind? Blind people often are just as biased. The sole purpose of that little line amongst many similar lines is to keep you from asking yourself the right questions ...
Psychological traps, but go ahead and prove to me that it's something else.
(If you like I can quote some Hare Krishna texts for you which have the same 'ingredients' for the same purpose, but then I would go very off topic here.)
Cheers
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: jcl]
#78127
06/28/06 15:12
06/28/06 15:12
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
For instance, if we one day find evidence that extraterrestrials have created life on earth, science had to deal with those extraterrestrials. Especially with the question how they evolved and became able to create life.
An interesting fact here in context is that one of the Nobel prize scientists, and discoverer of the precise shape of DNA, Francis Crick, believed that life originated from another planet. And why? Because of his intimate knowledge about the makeup and structure of DNA, he knew that the complexity couldnt have come about by chance.
By jcl's oversimplified view of abiogenesis, life is not a hard probability at all, so it should be popping up all over the planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Crick
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: PHeMoX]
#78128
06/28/06 15:23
06/28/06 15:23
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
Blind people can have sins too, not just that, but why would people that can see be blind? Blind people often are just as biased. The sole purpose of that little line amongst many similar lines is to keep you from asking yourself the right questions .
No, the blindness Jesus was referring to was not the physical condition of blindness, but rather a spiritual condition. He outlined this differnce between physical and spiritual dozens of times.
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When looking at the exact same line a bit more objective then you'll see that it's clearly nonsense.
Just because you dont understand it does not make it nonsense. Jesus even addressed this issue of people not comprehending His teachings:
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Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
Joh 8:45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God.
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oww wait, I'll be dead by then. Aahm, so much for witnissing any evidence about a creator..
You better hope so.
I find it the irony of ironies that you cannot properly understand the words of Christ, yet most children and uneducated people can...it is because you are blind.
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: NITRO777]
#78129
06/28/06 15:35
06/28/06 15:35
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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Quote:
Poppycock! Ive studied it, IM still studying it, however I also study nature (for my art projects mainly) and yet I see the design of God inside everything around me, the more i study nature, the more I am impressed with God's design, and the more i realsise the impossibility of evolution.
I would like to return the "poppycock" to you
The design of nature is fantastic and impressive. I agree with you in that point. But that is absolutely no proof of a designer / creator. There are explanations for every detail in plants and animals. You just have to explore them. Open your eyes.
If you will not do that then you have to explain everything that is beyond your comprehension with something that has to do with god. And that is a really cheap method of thinking. Maybe C-Script is a result of god?
"poppycock" what an interesting word. Sounds funny
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