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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#78170
07/07/06 17:49
07/07/06 17:49
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
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It will be easy to pick a single scientific paper and tell how stupid it might be.
This isn't a single scientific paper. This is the whole evolutionary community's belief on whale evolution.
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I am sure there are even wrong statements.
Only in the sense that assuming animals evolve is wrong.
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But evolution theory is much more than only comparing hyena's to whales.
This is just to showcase that evolutionists don't have to be believed, just because they're 'mystical scientists with infallible brains'. They have stupid ideas too.
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And if a theory is wrong then it will be falsified in the future by new evidences and better founded theories.
Evolution can't be falsified. I wouldn't get excited if they found a human fossil next to a trilobite, because they would have some explanation for it I'm sure.
Like saying trilobites must have survived until recently or some such.
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That is the way of science. It is not fixed and can adapt to better knowledge.
So then evolution isn't a sure thing. Then why do we keep hearing evolution is a 'fact'?
Scientists aren't weighing out evidence, they're reading the evidence from the perspective of evolution.
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That is a big difference to your approach.
My approach has simply been to show that evolution is a stupid theory.
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Because of that it will survive creationism in the future. And do not forget that creationism is only an american phenomen and hopefully will stay in your country.
Its all over europe and australia too. Sorry to say it, but creationism isn't gonna go away. There's a large and growing portion of the scientific community that questions evolution, within which are included atheists. The only option at this point is for evolutionists to marginalize creationists, and use the courts to make sure there is no questioning of evolution.
What's so bad about creationism anyway? We're not trying to get evolution out of the classroom, we just want the evidence that contradicts evolution to be taught too, and the theory of intelligent design ALLOWED (not forced) in the classroom.
One of the arguments that got evolution into the American education system was that the kids 'must hear all theories to gain a better understanding.' The result of hearing all theories is that now only one theory is heard, and any questioning of that theory will lead to a lawsuit. Pathetic.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#78171
07/07/06 19:50
07/07/06 19:50
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Senior Expert
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Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Its all over europe and australia too.
Lol, it's like freaking rabbits, right?   No, but seriously, how do you even think to know this? Have you lived in Australia or Europe and talked to a lot of creationists? Don't hold online pro-religious surveys for holy information please...  There are not many creationists in europe as far as I know. There are quite some religious people, that's true but by far the most do not believe in creation like written in the bible. Infact in some churches they even say evolution is the work of God and say it is/was actually part of the methaphorical creation by God.
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So then evolution isn't a sure thing. Then why do we keep hearing evolution is a 'fact'?
It's a fact alright, but absolute facts do not exist.  It's specifics and details could very well be falsified contrary to what you think, thus the theory as a whole could be falsified aswell, it's no religion like yours, but science hehhehhe...
Cheers
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: PHeMoX]
#78172
07/08/06 04:43
07/08/06 04:43
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
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Quote:
Lol, it's like freaking rabbits, right? No, but seriously, how do you even think to know this? Have you lived in Australia or Europe and talked to a lot of creationists? Don't hold online pro-religious surveys for holy information please... There are not many creationists in europe as far as I know. There are quite some religious people, that's true but by far the most do not believe in creation like written in the bible. Infact in some churches they even say evolution is the work of God and say it is/was actually part of the methaphorical creation by God.
I involve myself in creation research through creation Journals, web searches, etc. They have branches in Australia, Europe, and then some countries I can't remember off hand. The branches certainly aren't as large, which is readily apparent, but creation isn't an American phenomenon.
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It's a fact alright, but absolute facts do not exist. It's specifics and details could very well be falsified contrary to what you think, thus the theory as a whole could be falsified aswell, it's no religion like yours, but science hehhehhe...
Facts can't be falsified. They're always true. It is a fact that the universe exist. We don't have to wonder if we'll discover one day that it does not exist.
Evolution, if called fact, then will be believed to be unfalsifiable. But if its unfalsifiable as an origin science, its also not scientific. Like you said, we have to be able to overturn it if we find new evidence. But if we can do that, then its not a fact.
Certainly, as a story that no one was there to witness, it would be ridiculous to not consider it falsifiable. But it isn't falsifiable. No matter what evidence we find, we can always fit it into the evolutionary worldview. Its happened many times.
The problem evolution has is, it doesn't take very much to make a person skeptical of it. This is why people get all flustered whenever anyone even mentions a discussion of contrary evidence to evolution being taught in schools. They fight it 'tooth and nail.' Kind of like what Matt said. If you can't discuss the problems with a theory, then its become a religious belief. Blah blah blah, etc.
Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 07/08/06 04:47.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#78173
07/09/06 11:29
07/09/06 11:29
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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Quote:
If you can't discuss the problems with a theory, then its become a religious belief.
Absolutely. That is what creationism is doing. Science needs some kind of beliefs as well sometimes. But a pure science cannot be founded on top of beliefs. You need evidences otherwise another scientist will falsify you very fast. A lot of scientific knowledge has been falsified. That is no problem for science. It is flexible and it must be otherwise we could not adapt and get clother to the truth.
Creationism is another approach but lacks evidences. So it will not survive. You can repeat all what you repeated here hundrets of times. It will not change this only because of your "charming" words. You simply need scientific evidences.
Yes, you can doubt whatever you like even the evidences of evolution. But you will never find a better evidence except of your faith. Because of that most educated people will not follow this approach. You simply will not find an evidence of a creator, of human bones together with dinosaur bones in some stones and there will be no dog nor cat together with the first amphibian beeings deep in the earth. Nobody never found such an evidence so far and there are so much people here. Every stone has been watched from children, farmers, hunters or scientists. You have barely the slightest chance. It is simply too late to start such a theory
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#78174
07/09/06 17:27
07/09/06 17:27
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
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Posts: 718
Wisconsin
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Quote:
Absolutely. That is what creationism is doing. Science needs some kind of beliefs as well sometimes. But a pure science cannot be founded on top of beliefs. You need evidences otherwise another scientist will falsify you very fast. A lot of scientific knowledge has been falsified. That is no problem for science. It is flexible and it must be otherwise we could not adapt and get clother to the truth.
Evolution is a story. How can you falsify it?
The only way I can even think of is if every possible species was all found in the same fossil strata, but who knows, they might attribute it to 'movement.'
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It will not change this only because of your "charming" words.
You think I'm charming? Thanks.
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You simply need scientific evidences.
What scientific evidence is there of evolution?
Creationism by the way isn't so much the frontrunning theory for creationists, intelligent design is. And I still have yet to hear an actual rebuttle to irreducible complexity. Except that the parts can be used for individual purposes (the response to the mousetrap was amusing, saying the clip could be used as a hook, which would only be useful on a device much more complicated than a moustrap). The response has amounted to little more than, "No, you're wrong, they AREN'T irreducibly complex."
Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 07/09/06 17:37.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Things evolution can't explain
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#78175
07/10/06 11:51
07/10/06 11:51
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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You turn yourself in circles over and over again. When you do not accept analysing of stones as evidences and when you call all the hard work of scientists and labor assistants as a mere story then I cannot help you anymore I find this sort of evidences a quite good evidence. Much better than the bible that indeed is a story.
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