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Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: Domochevsky] #79217
06/25/06 13:54
06/25/06 13:54
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
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ulillillia  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
It may seem heavily biased, this is based on test results I've had from experimenting. Just try out my benchmarking tool I just posted in the user contributions forum and see what kind of polygons per second and vertices per second rates you can get. 19 million polygons per second is what I get and someone else gets 22 million polygons per second. Blocks could be lucky to even make even 50,000 polygons per second, a tiny fraction.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: ulillillia] #79218
06/25/06 14:40
06/25/06 14:40
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Germany
D
Domochevsky Offline
Newbie
Domochevsky  Offline
Newbie
D

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Germany
I guess it will show me the mentioned results, but still...
...ill try it shorter this time

"Why?"
(Why is it the way you say it is, what makes it work that way)

Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: Domochevsky] #79219
06/25/06 15:00
06/25/06 15:00
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
Senior Expert
ulillillia  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
The answer is short - tests and experiment results.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: ulillillia] #79220
06/26/06 05:17
06/26/06 05:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
M
msl_manni Offline
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msl_manni  Offline
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M

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
The BSP system was develpoed for very early computers, where every thing was to be handled by the CPU. If any polygon would intersect another then those involved polygons are divide into many. The basis of BSP is, no two polygons will intersect each other. And one can see that there is a rise in no of polygons, when two polygons or blocks intersect.

In case of models, their visible polygons, their vertex rotation, transformation, and z-sorting all the things that are now handled by GPU. Mdl models are handled by GPU now so they are way faster. Where as BSP levels are still handled by the CPU and the resulting polygons are then given to GPU for projection, this is done every frame. Because CPU has to decide what polygons are to be drawn in BSP's case, while models are directly handled by GPU, so the later is way faster.


My Specialities Limited.
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: msl_manni] #79221
06/26/06 11:15
06/26/06 11:15
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Germany
D
Domochevsky Offline
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Domochevsky  Offline
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D

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Germany
Ah... now thats an answer to life with
(If your GraphicCard is up to the challenge)

My thanks

Addition: Nearly forgot... so what are the Difficulties with Model-only Levels?

Last edited by Domochevsky; 06/26/06 11:18.
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: Domochevsky] #79222
06/26/06 11:46
06/26/06 11:46
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,640
Earth
Germanunkol Offline
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Germanunkol  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,640
Earth
GPU??
Sry... I just read in the interviews I'm supposed to get familiar with terms...=)


~"I never let school interfere with my education"~
-Mark Twain
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: Germanunkol] #79223
06/26/06 12:03
06/26/06 12:03
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
Senior Expert
ulillillia  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
The only difficulty I know of is that collision is a little trickier to get working properly. That's about it as far as I know. Once MED ever improves, I could get going on my 3D game and learn more about it.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: ulillillia] #79224
06/26/06 12:29
06/26/06 12:29
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,220
Just down the road from Raven
BlueBeast Offline
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BlueBeast  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,220
Just down the road from Raven
You wont easily get accurate soft shadows using an all models level, and thats not precalculated like blocks are... its all rendered in real time.

The shaders and dynamic lighting reguired for a decent all model level to compare to blocks is a frame killer too. You could create your own shadows on the model skins, but then you need seperate skins for floors walls etc ect which also take up a lot of resources.

I personally feel that blocks are still the way to go for indoor levels. Theyre great as the base level design, and from there you can add all your models for detail.

I think slow block levels are from the design aspect, not the engine. After all, as was stated, blocks were primarily used by older games for slower systems. It doesnt make sense that something that runs good on slower/older computers runs slower on faster computers

If you get the basic block level and lighting out of the way and all built, when you go to put in models and sprites, you dont have to rebuild the whole level, you only need to update your entities. And that part is super fast!

Models are faster than blocks, there is no doubt, but to make them look as good is a lot more work (shaders for instance). If youre making a DOOM3 clone however, models are the way to go.

Of course, youre limited still to 8 dynamic lights to work with, and its hard to light a decent level with only 8 lights per room or visble area... blocks have unlimited lights.

I'll buy the whole 'models-only levels' hype when we have enough lights for it and when any ordinary guy can implement shaders with ease.

Either way, if youre just starting out, learn with blocks first. theyre easy to work with.

Jason


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Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: BlueBeast] #79225
06/26/06 12:35
06/26/06 12:35
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
ulillillia Offline
Senior Expert
ulillillia  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,818
Minot, North Dakota, USA
One requested feature that has been on the agenda is lightmap calculations for models. This way, models can have precalculated lights to otherwise simulate blocks.


"You level up the fastest and easiest if you do things at your own level and no higher or lower" - useful tip My 2D game - release on Jun 13th; My tutorials
Re: help: how to lower FPS in a big gamelevel [Re: Domochevsky] #79226
06/27/06 13:17
06/27/06 13:17
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Texas
not_me Offline
User
not_me  Offline
User

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 508
Texas
if ur using grass models in ur level you should merge more than one grass model together so you have a patch of grass rather than one grass model. or...you could go into display00.wdl if ur using a6templates...and change the fps maximum. change the max entities as well. also use the orbit cameera so when you look at ur player from a top view the level runs fast regardless of where you are or how many modles are in the area. change time_smoothing to .99 which is the max. split your world into different parts and put portals at points where parts end... when you walk through the portal everything behind you disapears and things infront of you appear allowing you to,A, make your world bigger and,B, make more stuff. but the grass tecnique is the best thing to lower the fps rate of an "outside" level. heres an example of a grasspatch model i made to aid you. http://www.savefile.com/files/9010495

Last edited by not_me; 06/27/06 13:27.

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